The Elect are the Who-so-evers.

But as you can see, they were in the light at one time but did not "believe", then were they blinded so that the prophecy of Esaias might be fulfilled.

Jhn 12:36While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

 

James; that even takes away Adam's choice!!!

BBob,

 

Hello Convicted1..

OK...lets have a go at it.

Great verse. I fail to see your point.

If this is your point, then maybe I can help. Lets look at the context.

Who is the "we" in the passage? The WE is also the ungodly" found in verse 6.

 

The choice was there, but the love in Adam to have his own way over Gods way made Adam forget about the other choice, or at the very least Adam saw the other choice as not as good, for Adam chose what he chose because he saw it as good at that moment.

 

It still goes back to this Bob. Why are some let to go their own way and others are not?

 

Your post stated it in a way that Adam had nothing to do with it but that God had enforced it was what I meant.

BBob,

 

Because some believed and some did not, is what I get from the passage. It came down to disbelief.

BBob,

 

Rom 5:18- Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
Does this mean that since the sin of one affected all that through the righteousness of one justification is for all that have sinned? I think so.

Rom 5:19- For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.Same as above.

Rom 5:20- Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:Once more...same as above.
So we see that Gods grace is not to some special people that God chose but its to all. God chose a special way for all to be saved. Anyone who has sinned can take part in this righteousness.

 

Just a couple of things I noticed reading through this thread:

I've heard this a bunch, but is there scripture that clearly teaches such?

I've heard similar things almost as much as I've heard the first. Ya'll need a new anaology. Hay will not keep a lion from death. Where do ya'll find this stuff? Neither a lion's teeth or his digestive system is capable of processing hay. Nor will hay provide the correct nourishment that is required by a lion's body. hay does not contain any where near enough of the right kind of protien for a lion. Not enough iron and other minerals. A lion won't eat hay because eating hay is not a choice for him if he wants to stay alive.

Christ on the other hand is a real choice for those who wish to live eternally. Every man was created with the ability to accept or reject Him. Every man will indeed make that choice.

A better anology for you Calvinists would be to find a critter that will eat 'hay' to it's own detriment. Only then could you claim a similarity between man 'being blinded' to Christ. Good luck with that; it would seem that only man makes decisions that negatively affect his destiny.

 

Everyone was created with the "ability" to reject Christ ?! If you want to call that an ability ! It seems more like a disability to me .

Nowhere in Scripture do I find that people have an "ability" within them to choose Christ . It's just the opposite . You know being dead in sin ( Eph.2 ,Col. 2 ) is the common lot of everyone unless the Lord opens spiritual eyes . It is the Lord who decides to give life to the ones of His choosing . ( See John 5:21 , Luke 10:22 , Matt.11:27 etc. ) . We do not have the ability , talent , skill , strength , insight or power or anything within us to choose him .

 

Perhaps, Rippon, you need to reread what I posted:

 

Rippon does bring up something interesting. Just what does "dead in your sins" mean to you Calvinists?

 

I read you clearly enough . Again , I do not see the "ability' of folks to accept Christ within the Word of God .

 

That's funny, Rippon. When God says the words 'whosoever believeth on him", I expect 'whosoever' to have the ability to do so.

Now, what does 'dead in your sins' mean?

 

Well , it certainly does not mean that we are spiritually sick in sin . The spiritual condition is far more grave than folks would like to think . People have their senses . They have their faculties . They have the use of their bodies . They are not corpses in the physical sense . They can hear a biblical message and process certain forms of information . But , unless and until the Lord opens their eyes -- they will remain dead in their sins -- with no hope of recovery outside of Christ .

 

Scripture please. References are fine.

(ya know, do it tomorrow. I just realized how late it is and I'm off to bed.)

 

I Cor. 2:14
"the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"

John 8
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

John 8
47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

WHY do they not understand? They need to be born of God...

John
3:3 ...... Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

Acts 16:14
14And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Where do I get such ideas? How about the Bible?

He will not live forever, but it will keep him alive. In fact one lion did not eat meat for I think it was 9 years.

http://www.vegetarismus.ch/vegepet/tyke.htm

This reminds us of the verses...

!

Mans will is free to sin....and does a good job at that......

God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

There is none righteous,no,not one.

All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us

 

I take this scripture to mean because they are not of God, they refuse to hear him.

It is impossible to worship God with the carnal mind. God seeketh such to worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

BBob,

 

Aren't the Elect the ones who endureth unto the end?

Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.