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Featured The Elect, The Sheep, and the Like

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    To continue so as not to keep hijacking the other thread, MB asked that I prove Gentiles were called elect in Scripture.

    2 Timothy 2:10
    Titus 1:1
    Those are just a couple of instances. We know that those who are saved are part of the elect and Scripture makes clear that is both Jew and Gentile.
     
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  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    How did you get that from what I said?
     
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  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Neither of these verses prove election for Gentiles.It's your philosophy that has you believing in election for your self. Gentiles are never called elect in the Bible.
     
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  4. SGO

    SGO Active Member

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    Genesis 12:3 and in thee all the families of earth shall be blessed.

    gospel of God Romans 1:1-3 promised beforehand

    1 Corinthians 10:4 those in the exodus drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:
    and that Rock was Christ.
     
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

    1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,

    Bolded some words for you but yeah....I guess you are right...it never refers to Gentiles as elect...except it does.....
     
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  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And if @MB has the correct view, which he does not, we should all be very fearful of death!
     
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  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Blessed yes but not elect. In my opinion election is a burden the Jews still have a problem with it. I've heard them say God should have chosen someone else.Gentile are not the chosen race'
    Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
    Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    Not a word about electing gentiles
    MB
     
    #7 MB, Nov 19, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  8. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 1 the letter written to gentiles, Paul calls them the elect of God.

    2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse:

    Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Colossians 3
    5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

    8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

    Character of the New Man
    12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
     
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  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Why? It's Jesus tat saves not election. There are thousands of Jews who are lost and yet are elect. You believe in Christ I can respect that. No where does scripture ever say your Salvation is a done deal because of election.
    MB
     
  10. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Paul is writing to the colossians church here made up mostly of gentiles.

    24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,

    25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God,

    26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.

    27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

    28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. 29 To this end I also labor, striving according to His working which works in me mightily.
     
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  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Not one word about the election of Gentiles.
    MB
     
  12. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Galatians 2, Paul was sent to the gentiles, Peter to the jews.

    Paul calls the colossian church the elect of God, who are mostly gentiles.

    6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.

    7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter

    8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles)
     
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Your philosophy has got you to see what is not there.
    MB
     
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Only God would have the power to elect. Just ecause Paul was meant for the Gentiles He ended up speaking mostly to Jews. He even taught in the synagogues. Only in Athens did he preach only to the Greeks. He never mentioned election
    MB.
     
  15. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    He taught in the synagogues. Gentiles don't go to synagogues.

    Paul repremanded Peter for preaching circumcision

    We aren't talking about circumcision election is a different doctrine sadly claimed by Calvinist.
    MB
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I have to say that you tend to have some very odd and even unorthodox views on scripture from time to time. Not sure how you arrive at your conclusions. Do you understand that there are different types of election? There is an national election and there is a salvic election. It is important not to conflate the two.
     
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  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    If you are saved you are elect. If you are not saved you fall into one of two categories: 1. Not elect. 2. Elect but will be saved sometime before you die.

    Your position is that Gentiles are not elect. I am a Gentile. Therefore, by your view, I have no chance of salvation.
     
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  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So why do you believe Paul needs to endure all things for the elects sake that they may be saved.? If they are elect according to the reformed definition how is Pauls efforts (human effort) effective in the salvation of gentiles?
     
  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    National election is true for the Jews. This is the election that Calvinist claim is from birth. There is a choosing of Gentiles for Salvation This below is when.
    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified..

    When we are justified we are then IMO chosen to be saved By Jesus Chrst. Only when we believe in Christ. We are not chosen for Salvation until we are justified. It is not called election. The only elect in the Bible are the Jews. Scripture never calls Gentiles elect I know every one tells me that both words mean the same thing. If so please explain why two different words.? You may think it's strange but everything is in the Bible. Philosophy is what Calvinist use to interpret scripture. Call it dispensationism
    MB
     
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    That is not my meaning this is your philosophy again. No where have you ever proven that election is necessary for Salvation. Prove that it is and I'll take off my hat to you.
    MB
     
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