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Featured The Elect, The Sheep, and the Like

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Nov 19, 2020.

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  1. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    It is enough for me to know that I'm born again. I know a few Jews who wished they weren't Jews
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They are lost Jews, physicals descendants of Abraham, and saved ones, who are spiritual Jews, but Gentiles never change to Jews!
     
  3. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    How about some proof for your statement?
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    There is no verse in the book of John that says the "elect" know His voice and they come to Him.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Don't you hope to have been born from Jerusalem above?

    26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Gal 4
     
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  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    2 Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led. 1 Cor 12

    If the saints at Corinth were no longer Gentiles (non-Jews), they were ________ .

    A. Inuit
    B. Martians
    C. Jews
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    1 Corinthians 12:2, ASV where the one Greek word translated out as "ye were" twice. That they did not cease being "Gentiles" but from following "dumb idols."
     
  9. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    We are of the seed of Abraham who is the father of us all. This is all about a spiritual relationship, not a physical DNA thing.
    Galatians 3
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed (children, offspring), and heirs according to the promise.

    Romans 4:16
    Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

    John 8
    38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”

    39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

    Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.
     
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  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    "Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother`s womb, and be born?"
     
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  12. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Mark.

    There is no one, all-inclusive verse that outright declares that the elect are the ones being spoken of there.
    But I do know of a letter that develops who the elect are...Romans.

    For example, in Romans chapter 8 we see that the elect in Romans 8:33 are the ones who cannot ever be separated from the love of God further down to verse 39.
    In prior statements throughout the letter, they are the ones who are justified, glorified, called according to His purpose, predestinated, foreknown, and who love God ( Romans 8:28-30 ).
    They are also the ones to whom the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the power of God unto salvation ( Romans 1:16 ).

    The elect are the sheep, the sheep are the "whosoever believeth" from the heart ( see Romans 10:8-17 ).
    In other letters, I see that the ones that endure to end shall be saved ( see Matthew 24:13 ), they are the ones who are convinced that the preaching of the cross is the power of God and not foolishness ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 ) and are given the Spirit specifically so that they may know the things that are freely given to them of God ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16 ).

    They are also the ones given to Him by His Father ( John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 17:2 ), and are the ones who received Him because they were not born of blood, nor of the will of their flesh, nor of the will of men...but they were born "of" ( by or from ) God ( John 1:12-13 ).
    In addition, Christ's sheep are the ones chosen to be placed within His spiritual body, the church, from before the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4 ) and predestinated to their adoption as children ( Ephesians 1:5 ) at that point.
    God's choice of them to salvation ( 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 ) was the first piece in a very complex and gracious process to bring the recipients of His love and mercy ( Romans 9:14-24,Titus 3:5-7 ) to Him in this life.

    Finally, they are the ones who hear God's word, because they are "of" God ( John 8:43-47 ).


    After over two years of being on this site,
    I'm still not entirely sure of what you see when you read the Bible for yourself on these matters;

    But I clearly see that, when I put all the pieces together with regard to who believes and who does not, why they believe and why they do not;
    I can safely say that the elect are the ones who have ears to hear ( Matthew 11:15 ), who were given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God ( Matthew 13:10-11 ) and who hear His voice and follow Him, not men ( John 10:27 )...
    Because they were given the privilege to believe in the behalf of Christ ( Philippians 1:29 ), not because of anything they were directly responsible for.

    Indirectly, perhaps, but not because they ever sought Him out of concern for their situation or condition prior to His work of grace in their hearts and minds.
    God loved them even while they were dead in trespasses and sins, and saved them by His grace through their gift of faith...all the while being His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:1-10 ).

    I can also safely say that, according to Scripture, they are not of those in John 10:26...
    Who do not believe because they are not "of" His sheep.



    As always, may He bless you greatly in your continuing studies of His word.
     
    #72 Dave G, Nov 21, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Nicodemus' response is understandable in his not understanding. John 3:3.
    .
    Matthew 18:3, ". . . Except ye turn, and become as little children, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. . . ."
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Then we shouldnt be using it to say that it is.
     
  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Acts 13:48. 'Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed for eternal life believed.'
     
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  16. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    elect means chosen of God for salvation, so it is implied, the word has a definition.
    IT makes logical sense the elect will hear Christ's voice, and follow Him, otherwise they cant be saved.
     
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  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Uh no its not implied.
     
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  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    He didn't understand because his understanding was still stuck on this plane.
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Obviously he wasn't flying Spirit airlines...
     
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