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Featured The Elect, The Sheep, and the Like

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reformed1689, Nov 19, 2020.

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  1. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Nope that is a lie including Calvinists as the scoffers mentioned. The scoffing is denying the promised coming destruction of the wicked who are saying God will not destroy the evil people of this world or make a new earth. Those people claim this earth is eternal and wicked forever.

    3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

    4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

    6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

    7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Again...read the passage and see that Peter is addressing all the elect. Please stop abusing 2 Peter 3:9 to fit your agenda.
     
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Sigh, you come in with a bias, a prejudice and agenda and then you utterly butcher what God says to fit your agenda. Please stop being so dishonest.
     
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  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, everyone is predestined to go either to heaven or hell, but we can determine which one by coming to Jesus or not coming to Him.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I came in with the TRUTH, as God presents in His word.
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    He is addressing those who professed to be Christians at that time. And, on authority of Jesus, he wrote "all", not "all of you".
     
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No, you didn't. You used the Bible as a prooftext to your bias and prejudice.
     
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  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I have bolded exactly what Peter wrote. Peter does not proclaim what you proclaim and 2 Peter 3:9 does not support your prejudice.
     
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  9. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Peter was writing to the beloved, so this has nothing to do with the world, the unbelieving world won't be reading what Peter wrote, that was not his audience. God is not willing any of the sheep be lost, this theme is played throughout the NT scriptures, salvation for the sheep alone, damnation for the goats. Scripture explains why people believe in Christ and why they dont believe. Peter was writing to the church, of 'believers'. Same as Paul wrote his letters to the churches, so when you see 'you', 'us', or 'we' it is talking about the church, not the unbelieving world. As in all of the church, not all of the world.

    Honestly the objections are not even logical.
     
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  10. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    Peter is writing to who exactly? it can only be for the church, not the unbelieving world. To say otherwise is illogically dumb, maybe just an emotional response coming from a carnal thought, the influence of years of false thinking, and not being spiritually minded.

    2 Peter 3:1
    Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder),

    "9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise,"

    What exactly is His promise? It is eternal life for the sheep.

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us (beloved), not willing that any (of us) should perish but that all (of us) should come to repentance.

    That is who Peter is talking about, 'US'
     
    #110 Scott Downey, Nov 24, 2020
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Lost sinners unaided will always choose the darkness though
     
  12. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    "Of us" is not in the verse.
    Besides, God preserved it & made it available to all.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No, YOU have the prejudice, as you're supporting a false doctrine.
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Actually, they're quite logical. God did NOT create anyone to have no chance for salvation. He even provides for people who've never heard of Him.

    I'd hearda Him & believed in Him my whole life, but it took me til age 30 to choose to come to Jesus in repentance & submission & ask Him to accept me & forgive my sins, including my attitude.

    Do I believe I was predestinated to come to Him? Of course not. I had to make the choice. Whether God caused me to make that choice, I dunno. I only know I was lost before I made it, & now I'm saved !
     
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  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your prejudice shows in your statement.
    2 Peter proves you to be wrong, yet you still make assertion despite knowing you are asserting falsely.
    As for your claim that I support a false doctrine...you realize that election comes directly from the Bible, while you cannot find free will salvation found anywhere in the Bible.
    Your prejudice is obvious.
     
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  16. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    What does God provide for people who have never herd of Christ today?
     
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  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Where does Scripture say the thief on the cross was already elected ? How about Zacchaeus? How about the Roman with the ill servant? That's just a short list.
     
  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Same thing He provided for the ancient North Americans.
    (Romans 1:19-20, Romans 2:14-15)
     
  19. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    There is no salvation concept mentioned there.

    keep reading and you find this in v16
    16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    So clearly they are judged according to the gospel of Christ. Paul later says no flesh shall be justified in God's sight by observing the law. So what Romans 2 is saying, is they will be judged by the law, they can try to excuse themselves like Adam did, but God wont excuse them their sins, thinking God will is antichrist.

    14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

    Romans 3:20
    Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
     
    #119 Scott Downey, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Scripture doesn't need to tell us each elected person's name. This is a criterion you are demanding. What scripture tells us is that God elects/chooses his children/sheep. This is a fact that you seem to want voided from the Bible.
     
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