The Ending of Mark

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Originally posted by Bro Tony:

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In this way the MVs have influenced you not to preach the whole counsel of God, and thus you have subtracted from the Word of God.
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Unwarranted statement. I have taught each of these Books of the Bible, verse by verse. I taught them using different versions and shared why and how some translations did not include the verses. And how there are different manuscripts.

BTW---My favorite MV, the NKJV includes these verses in the text.

Bro Tony
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Terry quoted:

So you admit that your preaching causes people to doubt what God actually says. I will pass on that kind of preaching.
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Amen!!! Terry. I second that, as this is exactly what I was thinking as I read these unbelievable statements.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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The situation in Acts 8:37 is totally different from the longer ending of Mark. There is really no good evidence that that verse was ever part of Scripture.

Andy
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Tell this to God who has preserved it, and provided it, and the generations of christian believers who knew and believed this was and is part of scripture. It IS scripture, and IT HAS BEEN OMITTED in these mv's.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle,

Thank you for the confirmation. Just knowing you don't agree with the ministry I am involved in lets me know I am on the right track. Your diluted thinking and your circular reasoning on the matter of the Word of God makes me grateful that I don't have any KJVO's in my church. You have no idea what you are talking about as you have made that abundantly clear on this board.

Bro Tony

 

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I don't think either the AV men nor the NASB people had any conspiracy against God's word as certain authors contend.
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With all due respect robycop, this is not THE POINT, and COMPLETELY misses the point. Where do you all think God is during a translation of HIS WORDS? Where do you think HE is in this debate?


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Oh, I'm sure He is on your side, Michelle, He certainly wouldn't be on mine.

While you guys start turning another thread in to a KJVO debate, I'm going to go read my NASB.

 

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Notice that I qualified my statement. I said that if it was not found in the "original" manuscripts. The original manuscripts meaning the ones written by the original authors. If we were to find out, some day, some how, that it wasn't in the originals, then do we have a change of doctrine if we know it isn't really part of the Bible?
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So by this statement of your belief, can I conclude that you do not believe that God has, nor could preserve all of HIS words that HE breathed to the holy men of God? Just to let you know, this is CONTRARY to what God has said. It seems to me, that those who hold to this erroneous belief, and then claim God would not preserve the origional autographs because many would worship them, rather than God, seems to be EXACTLY what is happening. The only thing is, that they worship these in their imaginations instead, and neglecting to recognize what God has done and give God the glory for what He has done. Doing something like this would also be considered the same type of idol worship. I am not accusing you of this, but only saying that those who would do this would be guilty of this.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Michelle,

Thank you for the confirmation. Just knowing you don't agree with the ministry I am involved in lets me know I am on the right track. Your diluted thinking and your circular reasoning on the matter of the Word of God makes me grateful that I don't have any KJVO's in my church. You have no idea what you are talking about as you have made that abundantly clear on this board.

Bro Tony
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I for one, would not, nor could I sit under a Pastor who led me to doubt the words of the Lord. This to me, tells me this man is confused and does not know for sure. How then could I trust him to be led by the Lord, if he doesn't even know what the Lord has said? I would hope and pray that others also would not. It just shows the damage that these mv's and the texts and methods of them have done to cause damage to the churches, and the spiritual lives and faith of others. God does not sow doubt and uncertainty, nor teach someone to doubt what He has said.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Michelle,

That is fine, you would not be comfortable in our church, we seek the Truth and are not confused by the cultish KJVOism. I do not doubt God or His Word, I stand strongly against yours and others extra-biblical doctrine of KJVOism. I teach from the KJV, NKJV and from my Greek NT from which these translations come from. You hold a translation to a higher place than the manuscript it came from. Your continued attack on the Word of God in the MV translations continues to show your ignorance of the Truth. Even when you are shown clearly that many of the Scriptures are better translated in the MV you refuse to acknowledge it because you clearly would rather worship the KJV rather than the One who gave us His Word.

Don't you worry about the so-called damage the MV's are doing in the church. I would put most of the dedicated people in my church up against you in the area of Bible knowledge, and most importantly understanding, any day.

Your continued attacks on the Word of God show everyone who you are. You slam other Christians who do not believe as you do. In your mind you are the only one who understands. Finally, your closing phrase used at the end of your post is meaningless, because you destroy its meaning with the poison in your posts.

The only reason I even respond to you is that I am not willing to let your false doctrine destroy young Christians lives, and I will not stand by why a "professing" Christian blasphemes the Word of God.

Bro Tony

 

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That is fine, you would not be comfortable in our church, we seek the Truth and are not confused by the cultish KJVOism. I do not doubt God or His Word, I stand strongly against yours and others extra-biblical doctrine of KJVOism.
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My belief is not extra-biblical, as it comes from the scriptures - the Bible. If anything is shown unbiblical and/or extrabiblical, is to believe and teach that we cannot, nor do have the words of God perfectly in our own language. To preach and teach that verses of God's words could be, or could not be, and are not quite sure whether it is, or not, is not BIBLICAL and sows DOUBT.


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Your continued attacks on the Word of God show everyone who you are. You slam other Christians who do not believe as you do. In your mind you are the only one who understands. Finally, your closing phrase used at the end of your post is meaningless, because you destroy its meaning with the poison in your posts.
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How can you be the judge that I attack the word of God, when you yourself do not even know for sure what God's word says? Then you claim you teach truth? Truth does not sow doubt.

 

michelle said "My belief is not extra-biblical, as it comes from the scriptures - the Bible."

Part of your belief is Biblical. However, you have gone beyond what is Biblical by attributing what the Bible says to a single translation that the Bible does NOT mention. Everything that is Biblical about your belief could be applied to any other version - and the reason you DON'T apply your belief to any other version is because part of your belief, the unbiblical part, can't allow it.

 

Uh, Let's see, the ending of Mark. . .

I noticed that Dr. Bob once said there were several endings of Mark in different manuscripts (at least I think it was him.) Can anybody provide any of those alternative endings and the manuscript designation they come from?

 

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The only reason I even respond to you is that I am not willing to let your false doctrine destroy young Christians lives, and I will not stand by why a "professing" Christian blasphemes the Word of God.
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This has to top it all. You claim "I" and others who believe as I, to blasphemy the word of God? Rather it is I and others who are warning of those things that HAVE, and you and many others try to justify and condone them, and as a result are not only in doubt yourself as to what is the word of God, but sow and teach this doubt to countless others. This is very ironic, considering you cannot even tell what the words of the Lord are or not, and is what you teach, and then seem to have the ability to judge us, that we are blaspheming the words of God? You are confused.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

What does the history of the numbering system have to do with the NIV in Acts 8? 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 38, 39....

 

Michelle, lighten up, if you continue to accuse people of things they don't say, of lying and other things, you will be blacklisted and I would honestly rather you stay here and debate. But, the temper tantrums need to go.

(NO, I am not a moderator, nor am I speaking for the moderators, but I have lost debators in the past for these reasons and this is getting ridiculous.)

 

According to manuscript evidence, the majority of Christians down through the centuries never knew of this verse. The evidence points to the fact that this verse was never a part of God-breathed Scripture.

Andy

 

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Everything that is Biblical about your belief could be applied to any other version - and the reason you DON'T apply your belief to any other version is because part of your belief, the unbiblical part, can't allow it.
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Natters, you not only show your ignorance in this, but also your confusion, as this very thread is concerning the Bible and the scriptures to which I and others stand for as God's words and Know that they are, to which many here are in doubt as to whether they are or not, and teach others as such. This is UNBIBLICAL, as these very scriptures are IN THE BIBLE. It is not extra-biblical. The only thing that is, is to DOUBT IT and then SOW and TEACH THAT DOUBT to others.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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I noticed that Dr. Bob once said there were several endings of Mark in different manuscripts (at least I think it was him.) Can anybody provide any of those alternative endings and the manuscript designation they come from?
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Again, God does not cause us to doubt, what HE has not only preserved, but has also PROVIDED us and many other generations of believers.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

My point simply is that the numbering system was not part of any original manuscript and added much later. Just because a verse that was numbered is left out, does not mean that the number indicates that it had to be there in the first place. I am not necessary responding to you directly, but pointing this out to people who seem to point to missing verses by implying that the numbering system lends some credibility to their argument---when it was added after the canon was closed. That's my only point.

 

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Michelle, lighten up, if you continue to accuse people of things they don't say, of lying and other things, you will be blacklisted and I would honestly rather you stay here and debate. But, the temper tantrums need to go.

(NO, I am not a moderator, nor am I speaking for the moderators, but I have lost debators in the past for these reasons and this is getting ridiculous.)
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I see you like to regurgitate what other posters opinions of me are, not based on fact, nor truth. This is not only a false statement, but a personal attack upon me, to which you are claiming I have done to you? Go back and read these posts, and then take a long hard look in the mirror.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle