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Featured The Eternal Relational Subordination Of God the Son

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SATS PROF, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Each One is Yahweh, not when all together are Yahweh!
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    He was both God and with God (John 1:1-2) prior to creation (John1:3). Again, His incarnation (John 1:14) changed how He was with God (John 1:2), not that He was God (John 1:9-10; Hebrews 1:2-3).
     
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Himself said "My Father is greater than I." And revelation says He will step aside in His rule of earth so His Father can be all in all.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus spoke that though while here on earth, when He agreed to come to earth and be limited in sense not exercising His Deity, b ut not that anymore, as has been fully restored back again ....
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus as the Man Jesus did not exist until the Incarnation....
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Yahweh is not in parts. There is only One. " . . .
    Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; . . ."
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus explained this: ". . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. . . ." -- John 13:16. This having to do with the roles of persons.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Did not always exist as a man. Was always the Son. Always was who was with God prior to creation, John 1:2. So, the man is described as Creator, John 1:10, Ephesians 3:9, ". . . God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: . . ."
     
    #29 37818, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jesus and the Holy Spirit are eternally begotten. But since time does not exist as an attribute of God or eternity, none of the members of the trinity have a beginning or end. The begotten Son and Holy Spirit are a static condition of God. Begotten eternally.
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No way. They are with the Father the same LORD God. Uncaused.
     
    #31 37818, Dec 3, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION (One of many statements on the Trinity in scripture)

    CHAPTER III

    Of God, His Unity and Trinity

    GOD IS ONE. We believe and teach that God is one in essence or nature, subsisting in himself, all sufficient in himself, invisible, incorporeal, immense, eternal, Creator of all things both visible and invisible, the greatest good, living, quickening and preserving all things, omnipotent and supremely wise, kind and merciful, just and true. Truly we detest many gods because it is expressly written: “The Lord your God is one Lord” (Deut.6:4). “I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me” (Ex. 20:2-3). “I am the Lord, and there is no other god besides me. Am I not the Lord, and there is no other God beside me? A righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me” (Isa. 45:5, 21). “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness” (Ex. 34:6).

    GOD IS THREE. Notwithstanding we believe and teach that the same immense, one and indivisible God is in person inseparably and without confusion distinguished as Father, Son and Holy Spirit so, as the Father has begotten the Son from eternity, the Son is begotten by an ineffable generation, and the holy Spirit truly proceeds from them both, and the same from eternity and is to be worshipped with both.

    Thus there are not three gods, but three persons, cosubstantial, coeternal, and coequal; distinct with respect to hypostases, and with respect to order, the one preceding the other yet without any inequality. For according to the nature or essence they are so joined together that they are one God, and the divine nature is common to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    For Scripture has delivered to us a manifest distinction of persons, the angel saying, among other things, to the Blessed Virgin, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God” (Luke 1:35).

    And also in the baptism of Christ a voice is heard from heaven concerning Christ, saying, “This is my beloved Son” (Mat. 3:17). The Holy Spirit also appeared in the form of a dove (John 1:32).

    And when the Lord himself commanded the apostles to baptize, he commanded them to baptize “in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

    Elsewhere in the Gospel he said: “The Father will send the Holy Spirit in my name” (John 14:26), and again he said: “When the Counselor comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness to me,” etc. (John 15:26).

    In short, we receive the Apostles’ Creed because it delivers to us the true faith.

    HERESIES. Therefore we condemn the Jews and Mohammedans, and all those who blaspheme that sacred and adorable Trinity. We also condemn all heresies and heretics who teach that the Son and Holy Spirit are God in name only, and also that there is something created and subservient, or subordinate to another in the Trinity, and that there is something unequal in it, a greater or a less, something corporeal or corporeally conceived, something different with respect to character or will, something mixed or solitary, as if the Son and Holy Spirit were the affections and properties of one God the Father, as the Monarchians, Novatians, Praxeas, Patripassians, Sabellius, Paul of Samosata, Aetius, Macedonius, Anthropomorphites, Arius, and such like, have thought.



    Heinrich Bullinger 1504-1575. THE SECOND HELVETIC CONFESSION Trinity.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You guys speak beyond your pay grade. A whole lot of argument on things that cannot be known about a God that can only be understood by that which He reveals.
     
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  14. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Do you agree with the Ecumenical Creeds? They are for the guys who cannot make the pay grade.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I do not care about them. And no one can make the pay grade.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is contrary to the known word of God.
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    A different Christ?
     
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    How so?
     
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    ~Athanasian Creed
    Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

    And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

    But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

    Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty; From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies; and shall give account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

    ~Athanasian Creed
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The Lord Answers Job
    Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
    Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
    Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
     
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