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Featured The Final Court of Appeal is the Bible on the New Testament idea of a 'church'.

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Alan Gross, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Final Court of Appeal is the Bible on the New Testament idea of a 'church'.

    Elder Milburn Cockrell*
    Pastor - Berea Baptist Church
    Mantachie, Mississippi

    In Search of the Universal Invisible Church - Baptist Because

    (TEXT in LIGHT BLUE, like this, ARE MY COMMENTS)

    (God Knows if we do, or don't, read the Scripture references = not 'giving homework' or a 'Bible Drill', however, if these Scriptures have something Important, to GOD, then why would you mouth off, without any zealous fortitude (first) to Hear what Lord Says to His churches?


    What men may say about the Bible is unimportant.
    The great question is: What is the New Testament idea of a church?

    Does the New Testament authorize only the local idea of the word church,
    or does it authorize the universal(?), invisible(??) idea, or both?

    It will be my* purpose to prove that when we are shut up to the New Testament alone,
    only one definite idea of the church rules the field.

    In the New Testament the true and actual structure & idea of a 'church' is a local, visible body of baptized believers.

    A MAN of GOD should know these Scriptures, for what they are.

    These Scriptures ARE The New Testament proving that a Divinely Founded and Organized structure
    & 'idea of a 'church' is a local, visible body of baptized believers THAT JESUS DIVINELY INSTITUTED.

    This posting (AND REFERENCE LINK) is for that MAN of GOD, who is Called and has an ear to hear.

    Be faithful in your Service to The Lord God, Jesus, my friend.

    Let me know if you need anything.



    A limited reading of the New Testament will prove that a Divinely Founded and Organized structure & 'idea of a 'church' is a local, visible body of baptized believers made disciples (Matt. 28:19),

    a Divinely Founded and Organized structure & 'idea of a 'church' is a local, visible body of baptized believers:
    baptized these disciples in water (Matt. 28:19),

    a Divinely Founded and Organized structure & 'idea of a 'church' is a local, visible body of baptized believers:


    SHE
    taught them what Christ commanded (Matt. 28:20).

    A true New Testament church received members (Rom. 14:1),

    SHE elected officers (Acts 1:23; 6:5),

    SHE sent out missionaries (Acts 13:1-4),

    SHE observed the Lord's Supper (I Cor. 11),

    SHE had regular and stated meetings (Acts 20:7; I Cor. 16:1-2),

    SHE settled disputes (Acts 15:1-41),

    SHE excluded the disorderly (I Cor. 5:9-13; II Thess. 3:14),

    SHE restored the penitent (II Cor. 2:1-10),

    and SHE condemned false doctrine (Rom. 16:17-18).

    None of these things could have been done by a universal, invisible church(?/?).

    Just as a, 'for instance': WHY NOT 'CONSIDER JESUS"?????

    JESUS FOUNDED and ORGANIZED LOCAL ASSEMBLIES
    AND Promised to Be with HER, until the End of The Age.


    Since the term "the universal, invisible church" OR ANY 'IDEA of those 'Univeral(?), or 'Invisible'(??)
    is no where found in the New Testament,

    I must say that we do not have much to go on in our search. (=Satanic Influence of the Imaginations of 'PEOPLE",.....rather....then....what?

    The...Bible....)


    But in order to make sure the word 'church' never has any meaning other than a local church,

    1.) we must examine every passage in the New Testament on this important subject.

    ....have you ever done that?

    Let us look into the Book and see what God has been pleased to reveal.

    If the universal, the invisible church is of the great importance which some attach to it,
    surely the Bible will set this doctrine forth in plain language for all to see.

    Otherwise, there is no need nor place for the universal, invisible church.

    The word "church" found in our KJV is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia.

    In the Greek New Testament it occurs 115 times.

    In our KJV church is found 114 times.

    However, two of these times should be excluded from our study.

    In Acts 19:37 the Greek word is hierosulosnot ekklesia.

    This is the Greek word for temple.

    Then in I Peter 5:13 ekklesiadoes not occur in the Greek text.

    The word church is supplied by the translators. 'Ekklesia is translated three times "assembly" in Acts 19. Hence we need to subtract two passages in the KJV (Acts 19:37 and I Peter 5:13) which makes 112.

    Then we need to add 3 (Acts 19:32, 39, 41).

    Thus giving us 115 times ekklesia occurs in the Greek New Testament."
     
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The point I am making is that there is no contraption known to The Bible as, "the one body".

    What we find out, apart from their being no 'double' Interpretations of Scripture is that in each case that the word, "church", is used in The Bible, it indicates a 'called-out assembly'.

    A usage of speech, known as 'generic', that is also used in dozens of other Scriptures and in our everyday life, satisfies the definition as a called- out assembly, in every case.

    The invention of a second entirely new and different definition is foreign to The Bible.

    However, as in multiple other cases, by not standing on the literature, itself, or not caring to know, Satan has dictated an austoundly previlent False Doctrine of 'the one body', in it's place, as if all Saved on Earth are a part of some unknown 'church'.

    The Kingdom of The Son contains all Saved individuals alive on Earth, and nothing of 'the church' is ever said to, or ever meant to, unless Satan is asked of those will to accept Satan's second, fake new and non-Biblical 'meaning'.

    Prodestants 'needed' a new definition, to combat The Satan-inspired Catholic lie of a One World Invisible fake, phony, and false counterfeit 'church'.

    'The church' and 'the husband' are identical uses of a generic noun in literature.

    Who's wife has a 'husband' that is made up of all men, in 'the husband' is the head of the wife?

    One big 'husband'?

    The wife is to submit to all husband's?

    Satan hasn't tried that yet.

    Any time an article is used with a generic noun, the article may be dropped and a plural use substituted.

    'The husband' = 'husbands'.

    'The church' = 'churches'.

    That is the generic sense used in the Scriptures you quoted, but there is no, 'one body' Doctrine that appears in, or that can be Taught, from The Bible.

    That being said, The Bible is not everyone's Final Rule of Faith and Practice.
     
    #3 Alan Gross, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Ehpeians 4;4-6. "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    There is one body that Jesus Designed, Formed, Founded, and Commissioned as a Divine Institution, to do His Business, and it is local, visible, functioning as a corporate entity, organization, and organism.

    That is the only kind of 'body' there is.

    Jesus' churches are called-out assemblies that congregate in a gathering.

    My point you made is that you don't see God Saying, "there are two kinds of bodies", in this verse.

    God Give NO Authority in His Word to a "local" & "universal" church.

    It isn't in the Book.

    Just like you don't see it say, "there are two kinds of baptism; water and Spirit", because there is water baptism and the Spirit has never baptised anything.
     
  6. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Actually the "universal church can do several of these things.


    Now, Jesus said - "I will build my church" does that mean there is only one local church?
    IN fact, has that one local church survived for the past 1,987 years??
    So if that one local Baptist church that Jesus started - if it no longer exists
    does that mean there is no true local Baptist church any more?
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    37818 said: ↑
    , Romans 12:4-5, a called-out assembly has members.

    1 Corinthians 12:12-14, speaking of one baptism, the context is, "by The Superintendence and Guiding Leadership of Another Comforter that the Lord Promised His Kinds of called-out assemblies, The Holy Spirit Led each of those believers that were to join the church of The Lord Jesus Christ, at Corinth, to be water baptised." Many members.

    Ephesians 4:4. One kind of body is what God Says. A called-out assembly.

    Not two kinds of bodies.
    Not two baptisms.
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Actually, no one has ever found a universal 'church' in The Bible, since Jesus Founded what the word means, during His Earthly Ministry.; a called-out assembly.

    There is no such thing in The Bible.

    It is man-made and a fake, false, phony nothing, that is not of God.
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The one body is made up of only the local churches. Tbey were never made up of a one Catholic Church (cult).
     
  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Built what He called, "My church", and specifically in that Passage, He Commissioned her, which was the assembled Disciples, in corporate, Divinely Organized church entity capacity.

    His churches have been here, since that time when He Commissioned her ( those assembled) and Promised to be with them until the End of The Age.

    Where the Disciples to live to the End of The Age? No, not on Earth.

    The Lord Made the Promise to be with His Kind of churches that He Divinely Originated, WHEN He was Speaking to His Corporate church- body assembled there in Jerusalem.

    Jesus has been with her, throughout all ages, and will be until He Comes again.

    The Lord's assemblies are determined by their organization, Doctrines, practice, and are propagated by Scriptural Baptism.
     
  11. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    T
    H

    There is one kind of body.

    Not two.

    There is no 'local body' and then a 'big, big, big bunch of local bodies'.

    The Bible does not support that Teaching.

    Individuals must be Saved, with a viable Salvation Testimony of Assurance, prior to being water baptised into a Scripturally structured church assembly.

    Plenty of Saved souls are in The Kingdom of God The Son, now, and are not Scripturally Baptized by The Authority of God, in the way Jesus walked 50 miles to be, that would give them church membership, in The Kind of church Jesus Built.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #12 37818, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Acts and Luke passages are in reference to Jesus baptising with The Holy Spirit.

    In Acts those assembled that were doing the remembering of what Jesus had Said, were His Divinely Organized church in Jerusalem.

    They were baptised in Fulfillment of Daniel 9, when Jesus Anointed The Most Holy Place.

    Jesus baptised, and Inundated, and Submerged HIS corporate entity on The Day of Pentecost, with The Shaking Glory of God.

    This Publically Innugualized HIS Divine Organization to the World.

    Those disciples, who were members of that Jerusalem assembly were Saved and already had The Holy Spirit, as individuals.

    John was baptising in water some that would be there at Jerusalem as part of that church on The Day of Pentecost, when JESUS Anointed The Most Holy, with........Another Comforter.

    I Corinthians 3 can be and is to be prayfully considered to say, " for by The Holy Spirit, we here at Corinth who are Saved, were Led to be water baptised into membership of this church, whether Jews or Gentile, since The Self-Same Spirit Saved us both".

    The Hebrew baptisms were pagan and my interest is in what The Bible says and not what someone called a 'baptist' may conclude within their head.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @Alan Gross,
    Too many points of disagreement between us. I for one cannot argue multiple points at once. Such can only go circles without agreement.
     
    #14 37818, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I was just saying what the verses actually Teach that you gave.

    "One body". Start with that.

    One kind of body like the Kind Jesus Organized, as His.

    "One baptism".

    The figurative usage of the Shakina Glory being Infused as The Vicar of Christ to Initiate the Public Innaguralzation of Jesus Kind of churches, on the Day of Pentecost was expressed as Jesus baptising with The Holy Ghost.

    That took place ONCE.

    'Baptism' and 'the Holy Spirit' are not connected in Salvation, other than Saved souls being Led by the Holy Spirit to be baptised, in water.

    Too many points, yes.

    Enough to choke a horse.

    All VERY important to God.

    The Holy Spirit never baptised anything.
     
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the
    Yeah,' The 'going in circles' twisted trick that the Devil has made out of filling in his false teachings where people don't see what's in The Book is a mess.

    One body. One 'kind', not two.

    One baptism. One 'kind', not two.

    Ephesians 4 is the place to go, in order to Plead the Blood for understanding against his wiles.

    The Scripture that Teaches Church Truth is used by Satan to make it say, "two bodies" and "two baptisms'.

    That's false.

    Not in The Book and so it isn't bought by Worshippers Called to be Faithful to His Doctrine of Church Truth.

    How many people spend their entire life and not be exposed to what you have seen, today, regarding the church that Jesus Loves and in a special Sense, Died for ( so she could Reproduce as His Bride.)

    Remove not the Ancient Landmarks.
     
    #16 Alan Gross, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  17. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Printing in a 'church' flyer that, " How God Commands us to Worship Him means precious little to us", seems off point, to me.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Again, you are addressing more than one issue.
    Which one do you want to address first?
    one Body or one Baptism?
     
  19. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    The Lord's Church and Baptism is the title to some articles at my blog I'll post awareofthegodhead.

    The Bible addresses them inseperately.

    That is an enormous clue.

    True Baptist churches have Authority from God in Baptism.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Between two Baplists that disagree on just one point, there are a minimum of 3 possiblities. Only one or the other Baptist is correct in understanding the Biblical text on that one matter or both are in error.
     
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