the gap in calvinism

Pastor Larry; I hope this is a better form and easier to read. This is a respose to your p.m. email to me.

Monergist:

YOU SAID 'But you would have us believe that He IS partial; He's partial to those who in an exercise of THEIR OWN FREE WILL place their faith in Christ.'

RAY SAID 'Think this through for yourself. No we teach that God is impartial because His atonement is truly available to all sinners. [I Timothy 2:6 & I John 2:2] If they either accept Him or reject Him it is via their free will given to them by the sovereign Lord God. [Mark 16:16] Jesus ransom is for all sinners. [I Timothy 2:6] Anything but this is the machination of your revered John Calvin.'

RAY SAID 'Your god is not the Christian God of Justice, Love, or Mercy because He selects His favored ones, and thereby denying the very infinitude of His Divine attributes. The Lord's love is limitless toward all depraved souls. [John 3:16]

YOU SAID 'If I want to know what "love" is, I'm going to go with what the Bible says it is, not what Ray says it ought to be. God defines love; "love" does not define God. God is love because scripture says so; God is justified in sending whoever He pleases to hell because scripture says so. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else, has any business questioning God's love, not even if He decides to damn the entire human race.'

RAY SAID 'All Christian theologians agree that the Lord's attributes of love, grace, and mercy are limitless to all who believe. He is not an 'Indian giver' as to His imputed love, grace and mercy. That's why if a person is saved, he or she really is saved for eternity and has been given everlasting life when that one truly believes in Jesus.

RAY SAID 'God has given us theologians because they are the authorities as to what the Bible says, otherwise, any person just getting saved could pick up a Bible and begin to preach. The Pauline epistles reminds us to 'not lay our hands too quickly on any man,' meaning that the Elders/pastors should be trained in Biblical understanding and their understanding of the Attributes of God. My guess is that most of you, with perhaps the exception of Pastor Larry, have never studied the attributes of God.'

YOU SAID, 'If you or I draw another breath without our heart stopping it is out of the sheer mercy of God. Sin is high treason against God, and we've all committted it. He has the right, The ability, and the authority to put each of us to death, eternal death, right now.'

RAY SAID 'I agree with you above except that He cannot damn souls like you and me because we have been saved by His blood, forever.'

YOU SAID 'If a sovereign King does not execute His treacherous subjects who have become sworn enemies, it is out of mercy.'

RAY SAID 'True. That is what the Great White Throne Judgment is all about. [Rev. 20:11]

YOU SAID 'Sigh What happened at the fall, Ray?'

RAY SAID 'Yes, we have Original Sin but we also have the image of God in our eternal souls, [James 3:9] unless you deny this verse in the Book of James. John 1:9 must also be factored into Christian theology which Calvinism skillfully ignores or compromises, as to its depth of truth and meaning.'

YOU SAID 'This understanding is based on the Hebrew scriptures, where God revealed Himself as a covenant keeping God who chooses out a people for Himself.'

RAY SAID 'God is impartial because He offered the Gospel to not only all Jews but all Gentiles. Plus, God never turned aside pagan nations during O.T. times, they rejected Him all by themselves. Study the Book of Ruth about Ruth, and Rahab. [Hebrews 11:31]

YOU SAID 'This understanding is further expanded in the New Testamnet scriptures which shows our Savior dying for those who were chosen before the foundation of the world.'

RAY SAID, 'I take it that you mean Ephesians 1:4. It is true that God knows about everyone who will believe in His Son. He is omniscient {knowing everything}.

YOU SAID 'Your problem is not with Augustine, nor Plato, nor Aristotle. Your problem is with Holy Men moved by God to write inspired scripture.'

RAY SAID 'But, your problems of interpretation of Scriptures now are tainted because of Augustine, and his favorite philosophers: Plato and Aristotle. Augustine blended Scripture with pagan philosophers and the ideas coming from the theological center in Alexandria, Egypt. John Calvin, by necessity had to follow the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church via Augustine, or he would have been tossed out of the RCC. Martin Luther would not bend and they wanted to kill him.

RAY SAID 'I have no problem with the 'holy men of God' of old, who have given us the Scriptures. The problem with you spiritual children of Calvin is that you bought in on this quasi-theology that has been mixed with pagan, humanism.

RAY SAID 'If you want to know how Augustine was tainted in his theology turn to Baptist Only [then] Baptist Theology & Bible Study {then} "Plato, Aristotle & Other Foreign Imports" and then to Matt Black. And to Matt Black, "Finally, someone else has clearly delineated the truth about the critical errors of St. Augustine.

RAY SAID, 'The Apostle Paul in writing to the church at Colossie in 2:8 said and God is still saying to us, 'Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy {Plato, Aristotle, and present day philosophers} . . . . and the traditions of men . . . '

Best regards,
Ray

 

No, Ray, I will leave it for now. But learn to use the quote feature. Click on the "UBB Code is enabled" link to the left of the quick reply link. It will show you how to use the quote feature, as I described in my PM to you yesterday. It makes posts much easier to read.

 

Hi monergist;

Where did you get this idea from? Everyone I know of agrees we are first chosen by God Jn 6:44
It's Calvin's and Augustine's Idea as well. No one denies this. Men do not save them selves. If we are saved it is by the blood of Christ. Jesus invites us to come to Him.
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Invitations are not forced we have a choice to accept the invitation or reject it.

Even Paul said how we all are able to have eternal life.
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Without belief there is no Salvation. We aren't made to believe, we are invited to.
May God Bless You;
Mike

 

As for John 6:44 I believe that is for a human man cannot come unto Christ physically. It is only through our choice to except Christ as our saviour that gets us to heaven. I really don't see how a loving God says that only some can go to heaven and it is God who decides.

Man has a free will so we are not made to believe but a person can't be invited unless someone tells them. So therefore it is our job to tell them.