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Featured The Glorious future for Israel !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, May 15, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The next promise in the prophecy is that they shall be my people and I will be their God..

    This is applied here Rom 9:24-26

    24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

    26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

    This is the call of the Gentiles into Covenant Israel, the Church Eph 3:6

    6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    Eph 2:11-13

    11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    also 1 Pet 2:10

    10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    This too is another promise of the New Covenant which Christ is the Mediator of unto all whom He shed His blood for Heb 8:10

    10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    So this Promise can be applied to the Church, the believers in Christ, the Israel of God, the spiritual seed of Abraham Gal 3:29

    29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed[Israel], and heirs according to the promise.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.


    Paul rightly calls those gentiles "ignorant" who deny the salvation of the elect nation of Israel at the coming of Christ. The Israel which is now cut off are "enemies" of the gospel right now but they are beloved touching "election"
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I would simply note that the Deliverer came out of Sion over 2000 years ago.
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I would simply note that Paul uses the FUTURE tense not the past tense as the first coming of Christ was PAST tense to Paul writing this.

    "SHALL come out of Zion"

    Furthermore, the future tense is used in connection with what is a future event described in the previous verse "until the fullness of the gentiles be come in" which not merely future to Paul when writing but future to us as well.

    Next, this is in connection with the future tense "SHALL all Israel be saved" which has not yet occurred.

    Next, this is in connection wiht the future tense "SHALL turn away ungodliness from JACOB"

    Next, this is in connection with the "when" which is still future "when I SHALL taken away their sins"

    Next, this is in connection with the PRESENT TENSE state of this Israel right now as "ENEMIES of the gospel" but still "touching election beloved of the Father"


    Now, go figure!
     
    #44 The Biblicist, May 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2012
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    At the Second Coming Christ will be coming out of Heaven, not Zion ! Matt 24:30

    And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
     
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Christ does not take away sins by His Second Coming, He did that at His First Coming ! Daniel Prophesied of it Dan 9:24

    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    John the Baptist, a jew, now understood Christ to be that Lamb of God, taking away the sin of the World Jn 1:29


    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Christ's First Coming was to take away the sins of His Covenant People, for the First Covenant they were under could not accomplish that Heb 10:4-10

    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


    Now false teachers have Christ coming a second time to take away more sins, this is outright Blasphemy !
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    First, you have not said a thing to overcome the grammatical problems I pointed out in Romans 11:25-28 - nothing, nada, zilich.

    All you have done is resort to the common CULTIC tactic of hermentutics - RUN, JUMP and PIT scripture against scriptures which is an automatic admission of error and ignorance.

    Second, Jerusalem on earth is but a type of the Jerusalem above the true Zion or have you not read Paul's words:

    Ga 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    The heavenly Zion!

    So again, I present the evidence you just RUN, JUMP and PIT scripture against:


    I would simply note that Paul uses the FUTURE tense not the past tense as the first coming of Christ was PAST tense to Paul writing this.

    "SHALL come out of Zion"

    Furthermore, the future tense is used in connection with what is a future event described in the previous verse "until the fullness of the gentiles be come in" which not merely future to Paul when writing but future to us as well.

    Next, this is in connection with the future tense "SHALL all Israel be saved" which has not yet occurred.

    Next, this is in connection wiht the future tense "SHALL turn away ungodliness from JACOB"

    Next, this is in connection with the "when" which is still future "when I SHALL taken away their sins"

    Next, this is in connection with the PRESENT TENSE state of this Israel right now as "ENEMIES of the gospel" but still "touching election beloved of the Father"


    Now, go figure!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Still wondering how others can see this as being fulfilled right here and now, in a world STILL under domenion of the wicked one and his antichrist world systems!
     
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    There are no grammatical problems, which is always your excuse for believing and teaching false doctrine. The fact of the matter is, Christ has already taken away the sins of all those He died by the sacrifice of Himself !
     
  10. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    More unsubstantiated hot air being exhausted. Deal with the future tenses! Deal with the fact of a heavenly Zion/Jerusalem. Deal with the fact that the future Tense "Israel" is the PRESENT TENSE enemy of the gospel rather than a spiritual Israel consisting of Jews and Gentiles.
     
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    There are no grammatical problems, which is always your excuse for believing and teaching false doctrine. The fact of the matter is, Christ has already taken away the sins of all those He died by the sacrifice of Himself !
     
  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    So you don't believe God is Sovereign over His creation?
     
  14. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    "the future Tense "Israel" is the PRESENT TENSE enemy of the gospel"

    No there is an interesting use of semantics!!!!:laugh::laugh:
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I cannot keep repeating the same post over and over again. I pointed out in my response to your post that it is the future tense "shall" in verse 26 that defines the time when "all Israel SHALL be saved." Then I traced the same future tense "shall" in verse 27 describing that same event "WHEN" that happens in the future.

    I then pointed out that the PRESENT TENSE in verse 28 describes their lost condition now as "enemies" of the gospel for the sake of the Gentiles.

    Common sense should tell you if their salvation as a nation is yet FUTURE then presently they are not saved as a nation? Or do you have any common sense?

    Also common sense should tell you that if they are PRESENTLY "enemies" of the gospel "they" cannot possibly be spiritual Israel presently! The pronouns "they" in verse 28 has it antecedent "Israel" in verse 26. Laugh about that for a while!

    You need to read more carefully to avoid embarassing yourself. If you would have read my post more carefully you wouldn't be laughing but repenting of your false teaching.
     
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    The Work of Christ has taken away the sins of Israel already, the Israel of God. There is no work Christ is going to perform at His Second Coming to take away anyones sins, that is rank apostacy !

    Heb 10:4-10

    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

    8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    There is no more taking away of Sins, that is Blasphemy !
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Readers, look at SBM's response! He cannot deal with the grammar or the contextual development by Paul in Romans 11:25-28 and so he calls Paul's words "rank apostacy"!!!!

    Notice, he next practices his occultic hermeneutic - RJP by running from the text (because he can't deal with it) and then JUMPING to some other text in order to PIT one scripture against another scripture as though that is any way to arrive at truth:laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    All sins that will be taken away, have been taken away by the Offering of
    Christ, Their sins sins and iniquties shall be rememberd no more Heb 8:12

    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
     
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Propagating the so-called Margaret MacDonald Vision is the False Teaching here! You know, the vision that Darby used to justify his pre-trib rapture error!

    Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his book, The Church and Last Things, asserts that Darby was influenced by Edward Irving, a charismatic Scottish preacher, who established a new church in London called the Catholic Apostolic Church. As reported by Lloyd-Jones [page 138] the origin of ‘the secret rapture’ is the result of a prophetic utterance in the Catholic Apostolic Church. This utterance was supposedly in tongues, interpreted by someone and considered ‘a revelation’. There is much dispute as to whether the so-called revelation occured in Irving’s church or elsewhere and was then discovered by Irving. The origin of this ‘revelation’ has been attributed to Margaret Macdonald of Port Glasgow, Scotland. Her revelation was first published in Robert Norton's Memoirs of James & George Macdonald, of Port Glasgow (1840), pp. 171-176. Norton published it again in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets; In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), pp. 15-18. Whether all of this is historical truth is subject to debate[15]. However, it is apparently historical fact that there was a split within the Plymouth Bretheren as the result of Darby’s acceptance of the two event Second Coming and the ‘parenthesis church’. One truth should be evident. If the two event Second Coming is based on a revelation claimed by Margaret Macdonald, Edward Irving, or John Darby, or anyone in the Catholic Apostolic Church it is inherently false doctrine since the special revelation of God to man, the Scriptures, ceased with the Apostolic Age.
     
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I like this one "savedbymercy":

    Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
     
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