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The "Gospel" for Today

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jerry Shugart, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Yes I can. Let me pull up Act 2:22-24 again for you.
    Here Peter proclaims Jesus death and resurrection. However his sermon focuses on his resurrection. And also on Jesus' Messiahship as the Jews were waiting for their messiah. Now the explination of attoning death may be skimpy but the proclimation is clear. However, at this point we don't know how much the crowd may have, without being made clear, the attoning aspect of Jesus' crucifixion.
     
  2. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart New Member

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    Thanks for your reply, Thinkingstuff.

    However, Peter's explanation of the purpose of the death of the Lord Jesus is not just "skimpy" it is nonexistent. He spoke of the shame of the Cross and not its glory.

    Many dispensationalists agree with what is said here by William Newell:

    "The twelve Apostles (Matthias by Divine appointment taking the place of Judas) were to be the 'witnesses' (Acts 1:22) of Christ's resurrection--that is, of the fact of it. They were not to unfold fully the doctrine of it, as Paul was...But unto none of these twelve Apostles did God reveal 'the great body of doctrine for this age'...The great doctrines that Paul reveals may be outlined as follows...The fact and the Scripturalness of righteousness on the free gift principle--that is, of Divine righteousness, separate from all man’s doings, conferred upon man as a free gift from God" (Newell, Paul's Gospel).

    Besides that, since Peter said nothing about the "purpose" of the Cross in his sermon on the day of Pentecost then what facts from that sermon were to be believed in order that those hearing him to be saved?

    Thanks!
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I think that since the crowd was primarily Jewish that message which came accross was that Jesus was the Messiah sent to establish his kingdom whom they had killed in their arrogance. For me its a statement about the Church. For the Establishment of his Kingdom both temporal and plenary is the same as the Church.
     
    #43 Thinkingstuff, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2011
  4. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart New Member

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    Would you agree with me that Peter was proclaiming Jesus' deity as well as the fact that He is Israel's promised Messiah? Dr. Stanley D. Toussaint, Senior Professor Emeritus of Bible Exposition at Dallas Theological Seminary, writes the following comments on Acts 2:36:

    "Here is the conclusion to Peter's sermon. The noun 'Lord', referring to 'Christ', probably is a reference to Yahweh. The same word 'kyrios' is used of 'God' in verses 21, 34, and 39 (cf. Phil. 2:9). This is a strong affirmation of Christ's deity " (Walvoord & Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament [ChariotVictor Publishing, 1983], p.359).

    The Jews who believed that Jesus is Christ, God come in the flesh, were "born of God". Dr. Zane Hodges, past Chairman of of the New Testament Department at Dallas Theological Seminary, writes the following in regard to Peter's words:

    "Peter concludes his address with the assertion that 'God has made this Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ' (2:36). His hearers then reply, 'Men and brethren, what shall we do?' (2:37). But such a reaction presumes their acceptance of Peter's claim that they have crucified the one who is Lord and Christ. If this is what they now believe, then they were already regenerated on Johannine terms, since John wrote: 'Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God' (1 John 5:1; cf. John 20:31) " [emphasis added] (Hodges, The Gospel Under Siege, p.101).

    Here are the verses to which Hodges makes reference: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? " (1 Jn.5:1,5).
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    This seems to follow
    So yes I can agree with that.
     
  6. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart New Member

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    Can you then agree that the "good news" or "gospel" about Jesus Christ by which the Jews were saved on the day of Pentecost is not the same "good news" that Paul refers to at 1 Corinthians 15:1-5?

    Thanks!
     
  7. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Not exactly. This is due to audiences. Corinth is primarily Greek Speaking Non-Jews and must have had more to be explained however Paul makes it clear what the good news is
    In Peter's case he's speaking to Jews and has obvioulsy taken certain things for Granted where as Paul could not do so with his audience. In Both Cases though Jesus is Lord.
     
  8. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart New Member

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    Peter did not even know that Jesus was going to die just a couple of months before the day of Pentecost:

    "Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things" (Lk.18:31-34).

    So I cannot understand why you think that Peter would take it for granted that the Jews would know the "purpose" of His death upon the Cross? What Scripture can you give that would support your idea that Peter thought that the Jews to whom he addressed his words already knew the "purpose" of the Cross?

    Thanks!
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    That is irrelevant. There are many things we don't understand; and there are many things they didn't understand. Mary didn't even recognize Jesus standing in the garden, and the two on the way to Emmaus walked a long distance with Jesus. He expounded to them all what the prophets had to say concerning him, and they still did not recognize who he was! He was already risen from the dead when those things occurred.

    But after the Day of Pentecost, when the believers were permanently indwelt with the Holy Spirit, things became different. They were able to understand the Scriptures more easily. The promise of Jesus was fulfilled that He would send another Comforter to help them understand.

    The gospel was now complete. The death, burial and resurrection. And they understood it more fully now. Philip had the wherewithal to explain it--the filling of the Holy Spirit. What a difference it made in his preaching and teaching!
     
  10. Jerry Shugart

    Jerry Shugart New Member

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    DHK, I do not think it is irrelevant. My comments were in regard to Thinkngstuff's idea that Peter did not preach that "Christ died for our sins" on the day of Pentecost because he took it for granted that the Jews would know that truth.

    I am not convinced that Peter and the other eleven Apostles knew that truth because of the events which happened later at the first Jerusalem council. Paul said:

    "It was because of a revelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be running, or had run, in vain" (Gal.2:2).

    The Apostle Paul had previously been with the other Apostles when he preached a gospel (Acts 9:29) so why would he need to go to Jerusalem to "submitt" or present the gospel "which he preached among the Gentiles" if it was the same one which he preached previously with the other Apostles? Donald K. Campbell writes:

    "Paul seized this oppurtunity to consult with the other apostles 'privately' connerning the message he was preaching to the Gentiles. This does not mean that Paul sought their approval of its truth and accuracy, for he had received the gospel from God by revelation. Rather, he wanted them to consider its relationship to the gospel they were proclaiming" [emphasis added] (Walvoord & Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament, p.593).

    If the gospel which Paul "preached among the Gentiles" was the same one that the other Apostles were preaching then why would Paul want those Apostles "to consider its relationship to the gospel they were proclaiming"?

    That would make no sense. Perhaps you have an explanation.

    Thanks!
     
    #50 Jerry Shugart, Dec 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2011
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Could anyone be saved by an incomplete gospel? While I agree that Christ fulfilled the promise of the gospel preached since the garden of Eden, I don't believe for one second that what they preached was "another" gospel or an "incomplete" gospel in the sense of obtaining justification before God on the basis of the Messiah provision.

    It seems to me the question is what is the essential understanding one must have of the gospel according to the progressive revelation prior to the cross versus after the full revelation in the cross.

    As we study the gospel first delivered in Genesis 3:15 in its progressive revelation we find a steady source of added details as you travel through Genesis to Malichi.

    I personally believe that Abel's sacrifice was accepted and Cain's rejected because Abel's sacrifice was patterned after what God did in the garden to provide the clothing for Adam and Eve to cover their nakedness. He covered them in another skin besides their own from head to toe - They were clothed in the symbolic righteous life of Christ in the skins of lambs. Skins come only by shedding of blood. I believe that God personally symbolicly demonstrated the death of a substitute for their sins by the shedding of its blood.

    Abel believed in the same promise (Gen. 3:15) and manifested that belief in offering up a lamb unto God as a substitue for himself as a symbol of his faith in the preached gospel of the promised "seed" (Gen. 3:15).

    By the time of Isaiah, the substitutionary atonement had been progressively revealed almost as clear as the Post-cross gospel (Isaiah 53) that Paul could claim that the preachers sent to preach the gospel could be exemplied by Isaiah's report of the gospel in Isaiah 53:1- (Rom. 10:14-16).

    John the Baptist certainly understood the significance of the gospel as he preached faith in Christ for eternal life and remission of sins that provided justification from the wrath of God (Jn. 1:29; 3:36; Acts 19:4).

    The apostles were the disciples of John prior to following Christ (Jn. 1:50-57). John would not baptize anyone who did not repent of their sins and trust in Christ to save them from sin (Jn. 1:29; 3:36; Acts 19:4) as his baptism was a baptism of repentance.

    I contend that the apostles trusted in the gospel preached by both John and Christ for eternal life and salvation from eternal judgment.

    Where their confusion existed was (1) They could not reconcile the coming Messiah as King to establish his kingdom on earth with the Suffering Messiah in regard to chronology and actual fulfillment; (2) They did not understand how death on a cross as a common criminal harmonized with the gospel they received.

    John 6:67-68 make it clear that Peter prior to Pentecost trusted in the Person and message of Jesus Christ for eternal life.

    Finally, it was not so much that they rejected substitutionary atonement by Christ but rather they could not harmonize the means chosen by God (cross) and predicted by Christ with what they perceived to be first the kingly coming of Christ to overthrow Rome and establish his kingdom on earth.
     
  12. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    Pauls method ,as well as all apostles/successors , of teaching was ; ' I preach " notice it is preached not read , the vast majority of new converts were illiterate, so the only way to convey the message of the "Good News" was by a method called Apostolic Oral Teaching/Tradition , you won't find it explained in the Bible anymore than the word Trinity or Bible, but accept it , because that is a true fact.
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Mt 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
    Mt 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
    Mt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
    Mt 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
    Mt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    Mt 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
    Mr 2:25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
    Mr 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
    Mr 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
    Lu 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.Lu 6:3 And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
    Joh 19:20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
    Ac 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
    Ac 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
    Ac 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
    Ac 13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
    Ac 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
    Ac 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
    Ac 23:34 And when the governor had read the letter, he asked of what province he was. And when he understood that he was of Cilicia;
    2Co 1:13 For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end;
    2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
    2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
    Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
    Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.
    1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.
     
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