Featured The Great Questions Thread, where I Question, you Answer according to Scripture [KJB]

Revelation 19:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


What is 'spirit of prophecy'?

 

"Spirit" is usually representative of "life" in Scripture so I take this verse to say that the Testimony of Christ is the life of Prophecy, or in other words...Prophecy revolves around Christ.

And we see that this is true throughout Scripture.


God bless.

 

If Jesus calls His Church "me" as He does in the Holy Bible then the following Bible Verses definitely apply to His Church [ meaning said members of His Church ] so that Jesus' Teachings would be understood and applied correctly, not as it does today with many thousands of different church interpretations/ Teachings { 1Tim. 3:14.} Jesus Himself only established One Church, man upped the number of churches with all being of a different teachings than Christ's Apostolic Church { Matt.16:18 }, and again in {John 10:16 }.

Did God intend that the Holy Bible "alone' should be the guide to salvation? No, of course not because certain things in the Bible can be misunderstood [ as we see from the conflicting interpretations found in all non- true Apostolic churches ] and because the Bible does not give specific answers to all moral problems . { 2 Peter 3:16 }

His Church was Apostolic at Pentecost 1ST. Century as it is today. { Matt. 28: 20 } Now understand this, and that is, Jesus only said to His Apostolic Church: " Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."

Jesus demanded Unity of His One Church [ Jesus said " my church" not churches in { Matt. 16:18 } unity as in { John 17:20-21 }

We say that when the Church teaches [ official doctrines of faith and morals] it is still Christ teaching in the world.
{ a } -in a true sense, the church is Christ's other self. St. Paul calls the church " Christ" {1 Cor 12: 12 }

{ b ] Jesus said that in listening to His church we are listening to Him- [ Luke 10: 16 }

 

I would agree with this for the most part, and think that it is understanding the Trinity that helps us to understand that every believer is in fact indwelt by Christ Himself.


John 14:17-18

King James Version (KJV)

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


God has gifted certain members of the Body with ability to properly handle the Word, and we know that without those competent in the Word the Body would cease to function. But as the Body grows, it is similar to the Tabernacle in the Wilderness...constantly built, taken down, and built again...as members die and new members come in.


God bless.

 

Jesus was speaking about His Church and yes the Holy Spirit is in ALL members of His Church [ church meaning not a building] but the members of only His Church, because the members make up His One Church. The Bible tells us that Jesus demanded unity in His Church not a conflicting disunity on all doctrines as found in all non-Apostolic man-made churches.

 

The problem with that is when a group presents themselves as not only the only Church...but part of salvation itself.

There are many Churches listed in the New Testament and the bottom line is that they be the Church of Christ (not the denomination, but actually regenerate believers indwelt by Christ).

One of the primary errors of the Catholic Church is their works-based theology, which is in part due to her extreme arrogance of exclusionary superiority.

There is no single Church one must attend to be saved, and in fact many are saved before they ever attend the first service.

The Word of God is the authority of Doctrine, and the Doctrine of the Catholic Church can be seen as questionable, as can certain practices. This does not mean we doubt the sincerity of Catholics, nor their salvation, because if being in error or ignorant excluded people from being saved, there would not be the first person among us that could hope we are.

But then, those engaged in works-based salvation are still hoping to be saved. Shame they cannot come to trust Christ as we have.


God bless.

 

Darrell, in addition to the classic Matthew 25:31-46 which clearly states through the words of Our Lord himself that works are need you can also turn to Matthew 7:21-23 (not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom...) as another clear example.

 

That's interesting because when the Lord judges in the Sheep and Goat Judgment, those who have done works...


Matthew 25:37-39

King James Version (KJV)

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?


...were not consciously trying to work their way into His Grace, whereas those consciously doing works...


Matthew 7:21-23

King James Version (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


...are surprised their works didn't.

Didn't save them.

Didn't equate to relationship with Christ.

We are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, not by them.

Salvation is an event that takes place through faith in Christ, not the result of the good works He saves us to perform.


God bless.

 

Darrell, sorry but you haven't a clue to understanding 'works".

 

In the book of Revelation Jesus wrote seven letter to the pastors of seven churches that existed at that time--in the last decade of the first century.
Can you show me any one place where he desired unity among all those churches. Was that his desire or purpose. In seven letters does he once mention unity among the seven churches? NO.

Was Paul's purpose, in three missionary journeys, establishing over 100 churches, ever to bring unity among all those churches? NO.

Paul's purpose was to bring unity within each individual local church. Each church was a "body" within itself, and each member a part of that body with a specific use. The body (that is the local church) had to function with purpose and unity.
This is impossible for "The Church" a disorganized worldwide body, that really does't exist. It is impossible for the "universal church," or the RCC, a business corporation and not a "church" at all.

In the days of the apostles there were only churches, never The Church." And Paul wrote to each one of them to strive for unity not with all the churches but within themselves. That is the case that the NT presents.

 

Thank you sir, now let us hear One Baptist's side

 

DHK, you wrote this in post#50: " In the days of the apostles there were only churches, never The Church. And Paul wrote to each one of them to strive for unity not with all the churches but within themselves. That is the case that the NT presents."

Not true, read Matt.18:15-18, then ask yourself which "church". That "one" church that Jesus was speaking about was a visible [ not necessarily a building ] authoritative church as being the court of final appeal, where the final decision on an issue would emanate. This clearly shows that the Church was established with a teaching authority that supersedes that of the individual.
Christ established His Teaching Apostolic Church first so as when the completed Bible was given to man-kind man could then check with Christ's Apostolic Teachings to verify a particular bible verse or passage would agree with the Oral Word as taught by Jesus to His Apostles, and visa versa. Christ did not want to hinder or confuse any individual as today's new [ 16th century man-made ] churches have. Christ arranged His One Church with it's One Interpretation in a way to protect the individual believer from heresy, disunity { Eph.4: 3-6 } and sin. He established a Church 'Magisterium '[ that word was coined much later with the advancement of grammar as was the word i.e. Trinity } it is to act as the "court of final appeal " on doctrinal issues and endowing the Magisterium with it's own authority to teach and preach in His name { Luke 10: 16 }believers are safeguarded from theological mistakes when using " private interpretation" [ on matters of Theology that is ] which is not accepted by the Word of God { 2 Peter 1: 20 } The Bible calls the church the " Body of Christ " if the church could make a mistake in its official Christian Faith teaching, it could rightly be said that Jesus was teaching error. So God helps His Church by His special help.

 

Duly noted and ignored.




God bless.

 

I gave Matthew 7. Please read the posts.

I think I do.

Those who consciously perform works because they think this is a relationship builder, modifier, or retainer are shown to be unknown to Christ, and those who did works best suit the Biblical view of Works in that they performed those works because it was part of their character, not a demand they tried to fulfill.

This is indeed a great questions thread. Even the title is questionable.




God bless.

 

Mat 18:17 But if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly; and if also he will not listen to the assembly, let him be to thee as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer. (Darby)
--Get a good translation.
The word for church is ekklesia. It means assembly and refers to a local church as is translated here. Jesus was establishing order for a local church, every local assembly. This type of discipline was carried out in the assembly at Corinth in 1Cor.5. It is carried out every time a church member is disciplined. No monstrous organization as the RCC has this ability.
--Let's use a hypothetical situation. Someone is caught in immorality in your local assembly, the actual church you attend. If he doesn't repent after one or two witness (one being the priest), then is he taken right before the Pope? Does the Pope make that decision on every person that needs to be disciplined? No. But he is the head of the "church". Obviously this cannot apply to the RCC, but the RCC makes a mockery of this scripture.

1. God gave us the scriptures, not the church. You have it backwards. Honestly, do you have the arrogance to tell God what he can and cannot do?
2. The Bible was completed by 98 A.D. and the apostles knew which scriptures were inspired. There was no RCC in existence at that time. There were only churches. And most of the apostles had been martyred. But the churches had been taught which books were scripture and which were not.
3. There was no such thing as an organized church; no such thing as The Church."
4. There is no evidence that Peter, no his own accord, ever made it to Rome. This throws all your Catholic beliefs into chaos.
5. Tradition is just that "tradition." It is not reliable.

There is, and never was just "One Church," and you have no evidence, no proof that it ever existed. Peter was never in Rome where it supposedly existed. There were only churches in the first and second centuries, and in the third. The RCC was not established until the fourth century. You are simply posting RCC propaganda with no facts, no evidence to back it up. Every believer is commanded:
Study to show yourself approved unto God...(2Tim.2:15). Do you carry out that command?
Or the command that Jesus gave: "Search the Scriptures...", or do you just blindly accept what the RCC tells you who violate the scripture by giving you their private interpretation?

Don't blaspheme the name of God by posting such things!
God never established a "Church Magesterium." Demonstrate that out of the Bible! You can't. The trinity can; the magesterium is a man-made fictitious organization conceived by the devil.
Jesus said:
Joh 8:44 Ye are of the devil, as your father, and ye desire to do the lusts of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks falsehood, he speaks of what is his own; for he is a liar and its father:
--If that verse applies anywhere; it applies here. Those who compose false doctrine and claim it to be God's doctrine are children of the devil, not of God.

There is no "The Church." The bible refers to every local church as a "body of Christ," and every member of that church as members of that body with a very important part to play. That is all described in 1Cor.12. You don't know much about ecclesiology do you? The word for church is ekkesia, and always means assembly, or local church.

 

DHK, do you agree with the statement that one must be a member of the Body of Christ in order to be saved? The Bible tells us that “The church” is the Body of Christ { Col 1:24}. So, when we say that one must be a member of “The church” in order to be saved, what we are really saying is that one must be a member of the Body of Christ in order to be saved.

So, I think there should be agreement between the two of us on “The church” as identified as the “Body of Christ.” The real definition of “The church,” which is generally along the lines of: All those who have accepted Jesus into their hearts as their personal Lord and Savior regardless of what denomination they belong to, would you say that is the correct definition of church?

 

My belief is completely different than yours. I get it from my Greek understanding of the words used in the Bible, my own study of the Scriptures, and having expounded week by week, if not day by day as I have both taught it and preached it throughout these many years.
I will take you through many of the verses of 1Cor.12 where Paul relates spiritual gifts to the church at Corinth. All his comments are directed to that local church. They are corrective. Whatever we can derive for ourselves we must do by application, for Paul's letter was to them, the church at Corinth.

From verse 4 to 11 he lists the spiritual gifts that God had given them.
Then in verse 12 he says:
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
The body, that is the body of Christ, is that local church at Corinth. Every biblical local assembly is a body in and of itself. There is no such thing as "The Church," or a universal church. The only kind of church is a local church, and that is what is being described here.
They were one body, and that one body had many members. Each member had unique gifts. They were to use the gifts that God had given them. If they would do that then they would be unified and would go forward together.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
In the Greek the word "Spirit" is not captitalized.
In one spirit (that is a spirit of unity) we have all been baptized (by immersion) whether Jew or Gentile...and have made to drink of the into one spirit or been nourished by the Spirit of God. The emphasis is on unity in the local church, as you will see--it is the emphasis all the way through.

1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
--There is only one body (at Corinth), but they did have many members.
IOW, they could not be divisive splitting up into different factions. They had to come together and form one unified body in Corinth.

1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
--This is where it becomes very evident that this is speaking of a local church and only a local church. If there were a "universal church," or "The Church" these verses would be irrelevant and meaningless.
--Not everyone can be a hand. Not everyone can be an eye. There are some that need to be a foot or an ear, or perhaps some of the lesser known parts of the body. The church was divisive. Many wanted some of the more "showy gifts" like speaking in tongues. People could see them and think they were "spiritual" when in fact they would be carnal.
Paul is telling them to keep and use the gifts you have for the glory of the Lord that the local church might be unified and go forward as one unified body.

Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
--An obvious truth for the local church.

1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
--This verse also is only true and practical in a local church setting. It also is impossible to put into practice within the monstrosity of the RCC. It just doesn't make any sense unless it is in a local church.
--"When one member suffers, all the members suffer with it."
I just came back from visiting some friends. One of them told me: "You won't see me here as often as I have been here lately. The doctors have found a rare form of cancer in my wife. She has been admitted to the hospital. I expect that is going to take up much of my time."
When one member suffers all members suffer." Our local church can share in his sufferings and pray for him and his wife and help them any way we can.
But you can't. Your church can't. Neither can any other church in America, South America, Asia, Australia, Europe, etc. They are not part of "this body of Christ." They are totally ignorant of the members of this body of Christ. They don't suffer with the members of this body of Christ. This only can apply to local churches.

And then Paul immediately says
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
The church at Corinth was "the body of Christ," and each member made up a part of it. Every local church is a body of Christ.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
--The the Lord tells us how the local church was set up.
The foundation was made up of the Apostles, and prophets. Those two offices have ceased.
We still have teachers. All of these are in order of importance.
Then everything after teachers, that is, from miracles afterward are spiritual gifts that were operative in the first century but since the completion of the canon in the first century have ceased.

Every time the word church is used in the Bible it is used in the sense of "local church." That is what "ekklesia," means: assembly. It is impossible to have an "unassembled assembly.

 

DHK, By the way, our word "church" also comes from another Greek word, kyriakos, meaning, belonging to the Lord.

 

No it doesn't, at least not in the NT. Not one time does the Greek NT use that word and translate it as "church." The "church" in the NT is always an assembly. The word you used refers simply to a building, which the church, biblically, is not.