The Great Whore of Revelation

John is speaking of the FUTURE destruction of the Great Whore at the time when the ten kings come to power with the beast to fight Christ.

However, it is absurdly rediculous to say that Revelation 17:18 is future when he changed from the future tense back to the present tense.

Furthermore, She is charged with killing the apostles and therefore cannot be something yet still in the future unless you take the absurd position that the apostles have not yet died??????

You fella's are grasping at straws in order to escape the clear scathing condemnation of Roman Catholicism - pure and simple


HERE IS PROOF SHE IS EXISTED ALREADY WHEN JOHN WROTE AS WELL AS IN THE FUTURE:

Rev. 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.


Rev. 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Try to fit these two texts into a yet future city!!!!

 

Apparently you have not been reading my posts. The "Mystery" Babylon religion has been present on earth since "the way of Cain" as the opposition religion to God's way! It was institutionalized with Babylon and thus called the "MYSTERY" religion of Babylon. It became the religion of SECULAR ROME but it is not secular Rome but controls Secular Rome or rides upon the back of the SECULAR ROMAN GOVERNMENT and killed the apostles and saints prior to John writing this book.

However, in John's time it became headquartered in the "city" of Rome (present tense). It will continue from that city right up to the time of the ten king kingdom and final "hour" when the ten kings turn and destroy her first and then the battle with Christ in Revelation 19:12-20 occurs - the final hour.

What continues from that city right up to the final hour? The MYSTERY BABYLONIAN RELIGION. It continued up to the time of Constantine and then became Christianized in terms with the same pagan practices. The pagan Madonna and child. The pagan "college of pontiffs" and the pagan high preist "Pontifex Maximus" and the pagan rituals or sacraments. This MYSTERY BABYLON RELIGION contined after Secular Rome fell and it continues to day as a CITY RELIGIOUS GOVERNMENT and will till it is destroyed by God through the coming ten kings in the final hour upon this earth.

 

I certainly do not mind an honest and sincere discussion. I would be more than happy to answer any question I am able to answer.

 

Revelation 17-18 says NOTHING about Christ being crucified in the "city" defined in Revelation 17:18.

 

Have you ever heard of "context"? In the context of Judaism "the great city" is Jerusalem (Rev. 11:1-14). However, in the context of world kingdoms in the day of John "the great city" can only be Rome. Furthermore, the apostles were not killed in Jerualem or by Jerusalem but Paul and Peter were killed in Rome and there rest by Rome. (Rev. 17-19:4).

 

Several things are wrong with your rationale.

1. The present tense in Reve. 17:18 demands a current city exercising power over the "kings of the earth" - Only Rome could meet that criteria.

2. The context is from the perspective of John on the isle of Patmos and the seven congregations of Asia minor - The Roman Empire was their "known world"

3. The next world kingdom in Daniel after the Grecian Empire was the Roman Empire.

4. Absolute subjection of every king never occurred with the Babylonian Empire, the Medo-Persian Empire or the Grecian Empire and therefore to demand that precise criteria of Revelation 17:18 is irrational and at odds with the general meaning of a one world empire as previously perceived by Biblical writers

5. Jerualem did not kill the apostles nor continue in existence right up to the final "hour" when the ten kings and the beast fight Christ as recorded in Rev. 19:12-20 but was destroyed long before and continued to be destroyed until 1948. However, the Roman empire did kill at least 11 out of 13 apostles.

6. The econcomic prosperity described in Revelation 18 does not fit Jerusalem but Rome.

7. This Great Harlot located in this "city" is the "MYSTERY" Babylonian religion which not only ruled over the "beast" (secular government) but continued even after the fall of the Roman government in this city through Roman Catholicism which dominated the pagan secular governments that took the place of the Roman secular government right up to this very day.

 

What you are failing to recognize is that John is being given a complete history of the past, the present ("one NOW IS.....which REIGNETH") and the future. The future has to do with how it is destroyed and when it is destroyed. The saints and the apostles had already been killed in the past from the aspect of its future description when it is destroyed.

 

No, he deals with all three tenses in chapter 17. Chapter 17 summarizes the whole history while chapters 18-19:4 and 19:12-20 give a broader explanation.

It is simply rediculous to claim Chapter 17-19 deals with Jerusalem. There are even archealogical evidence where Roman coins show a woman holding a cupt sitting upon the seven hills of Rome. Jerusalem was in SUBJECTION to Rome and has been in subjection to the kings of the earth from AD 70 even until now. No Jew living at the time of John, an exile on patmos, not by Jerusalem but by Rome would even rationalize Jerusalem in such language as it was under the thumb of Rome long before Jesus came on the scene and long after John left the scene. You talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel, that is the very essence of your argument.

 

Now, you are simply desperate. The connection here is not with God but fornication with the kings of the earth. The connection is here not with God but with "MYSTERY BABYLON." Literal Babylon is described exactly this way in the Old Testament and "MYSTERY" babylon refers its false religion that departed from God at its very root with Babel. Just go back into Jeremiah and you can read the same language about LITERAL babylon who NEVER had a relationship with God but was pagan from its earliest conception. Did literal Babylon have a covenant relationship with God??? No! Do I need to quote Jeremiah and this very same sexual language about literal Babylon to prove that "MYSTERY" Bablyon and its relationship with the kings of the earth does not demand a previous covenant with God??????? I can! Your argument is baseless.

 

Like I said "desperate."

You make a charge but can't back it up with evidence. I can back up my statement with evidence and here it is:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication,

Not future tense but past tense "have" (Aorist Acive Indicative). The fornication is with the kings of the earth.

Jer 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD’S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

John says the fornications are in the cup:

Rev. 17:4having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Hence, what the kings do is drink of this cup or partake of her false religous doctrines. Literal Babylon is charged with false religion:

Isa 21:9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.

What a SYMBOLIC description of the Roman Catholic religion with its "graven images." Jerusalem then (time of John) and now does not contain "graven images"

REMEMBER THE BABYLON IN REVELATION 17 IS "MYSTERY" NOT LITERAL BABYLON. LITERAL BABYLON HAD BEEN DESTROYED AND IS STILL DESTROYED.

BTW when did Chick write Isaiah and Jeremiah?????