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The Impeccability of Christ

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Pastor_Bob, Sep 24, 2007.

?

Do you believe in the Impeccability of Christ?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    58.8%

  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    29.4%

  3. Never studied the issue

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%

  4. Never heard of it

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
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  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Now that is putting things into perspective.
     
    #41 TCGreek, Sep 25, 2007
  2. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: To go beyond what is written is a very subjective thing. Does Scripture say that Christ did not sin or that Christ could not sin? Chapter and verse please:)
     
    #42 Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 25, 2007
  3. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    If Christ could have sinned, then He had a decision to make when tempted by Satan to fall down and worship him. Christ did not have to think about it. He was determined to do the will of His Father from the very beginning. I disagree with an earlier post implying that He tried to get out of Calvary. To have an impeccable Christ is to validate His claims that He and the Father “are one.”
     
    #43 Pastor_Bob, Sep 25, 2007
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: But He hasn’t and He did not, and He will not, even if He could. Where does it say that His immutability would not allow the possibility to exist? Is that going beyond Scripture?

    What does love mean to you? Is love a fixed static state of being or an active vibrant expression of choice?
     
    #44 Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 25, 2007
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    HP,

    1. Pastor_Bob's post #20 is also my answer. If that answer is not enough for you, then I'm afraid I cannot venture another.

    2. I'm comfortable with what I don't know. But what I know about Christ is that while in the flesh He was perfectly God and unable to sin. I know of no other answer.

    3. I'm sorry if that is too simple and doesn't work for you.
     
    #45 TCGreek, Sep 25, 2007
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Indeed - a short cut was being offerred for the price of a moment of humiliation. Far more humiliation was in store at the cross and then 2000 more years of sin and suffering. But Christ chose obedience to the Father's will instead.


    And the downside is??


    "Father IF it be possible let this cup pass from me - never the less NOT my will but THY will be done".

    You say you differ with this? Or you are saying that this is the way to say "I am unwaivering in my determination to go through with this just as we planned - no problem here full steam ahead as far as I am concerned"??

    I would have to say that your point does not appear to bear out given that text.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #46 BobRyan, Sep 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2007
  7. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: You are the one that used the “H” word, not I .:) Where does Scripture state that Christ was “unable to sin?” Is that going beyond Scripture?
     
    #47 Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 25, 2007
  8. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78 New Member

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    How do you make it like that?
     
    #48 charles_creech78, Sep 25, 2007
  9. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78 New Member

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    1Pe 2:21 For euen hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for vs, leauing vs an example, that yee should follow his steps 1Pe 2:22 Who did no SINNIE, neither was guile found in his mouth. 1Pe 2:23 Who when hee was reuiled, reuiled not againe; when hee suffered, hee threatned not, but committed himselfe to him that iudgeth righteously 1Pe 2:24 Who his owne selfe bare our sinnes in his owne body on the tree, that wee being dead to sinnes, should liue vnto righteousnesse, by whose stripes ye were healed.
     
    #49 charles_creech78, Sep 25, 2007
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Exellent point.

    No way to answer it.
     
    #50 BobRyan, Sep 25, 2007
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. Please don't get the impression that I thought you were venturing some kind of heresy. I was just making a general statement that I know you would agree with.

    2. With that said, I encourage you to do a bit of systematizing. Work with the biblical data and see what you come up with.

    3. Post #20 is a good place to start.
     
    #51 TCGreek, Sep 25, 2007
  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Is there something sinister about having a decision to make? Scripture is replete with instances where God decided or allowed man to make the decision.

    Just for argument sake, if Christ could have made decisions to sin or not, but always chose the right thing, how is that not being perfect as He was, is , and forever more will be? Why does a choice have to somehow negate God as being the same yesterday today and forever? Can you not trust a God that actually has a choice He can make?

    Is not God sovereign? Can God make a choice if He wants to?
     
    #52 Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2007
  13. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

    Jesus had no inherited sin nature; the necessary result His virgin birth. Jesus had no inward lust to correspond with an outward temptation. Jesus was sinless, perfect, and spotless, and was so before the foundations of the world were ever laid.

    You and I yield to temptation because inside of us there is a lust or desire that corresponds with the temptations we face and we sin. Jesus did not have such lusts of His own.
     
    #53 Pastor_Bob, Sep 25, 2007
  14. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: No, we don’t yield just because it is there. Sin is not force or coercion, it is a choice of the will. Choice denotes two or more possibilities. We sin because we willing yield to the temptation that lust produces.
     
    #54 Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 25, 2007
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    True - but it is a change. your argument is that no change was possible.



    Yes that is your position - but how to prove it?

    Which get's us back to "He was not a baby yesterday but He became a baby".

    Your argument is "no change" possible.

    Seems like change happened.

    God did not get hungry and could not be tempted.

    Christ got hungry - Christ was tempted.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #55 BobRyan, Sep 25, 2007
  16. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    The nature of Christ and the nature of all other humans, were they the same at birth?
     
    #56 TCGreek, Sep 25, 2007
  17. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    How could Christ be the express image of God’s person if He could have sinned? God cannot sin. His Son, who is the express image of His person, cannot sin either.

    Jesus Himself states that He could not sin. There is no unrighteousness in Him. Nothing in Him that would have the propensity to sin.
    John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

    Paul (The author of Hebrews in my opinion – but that is another thread) tells us that Christ, although 100% man, was definitely not like the rest of us. He was undefiled and separate from sinners.
    Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
     
    #57 Pastor_Bob, Sep 25, 2007
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    True.

    Lucifer also had not sin nature.

    Adam also had no sin nature.

    These were really tempted and in their case they really fell.

    Christ was tempted - had a sinless nature -- did not fall.


    True.

    True.

    But as the point above shows - having a sinless nature never placed them beyond temptation or the possibility of falling.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #58 BobRyan, Sep 25, 2007
  19. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: I will let Scripture answer that for us. Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    God became man. What constitutes being made a man TCG?
     
    #59 Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 25, 2007
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    No - we have a sinful nature. Christ did not.
     
    #60 BobRyan, Sep 25, 2007
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