The importance of reading

Who else states these 'books' were something other than the scriptures?

It was an illistration, get a grip.
Regardless, no matter what secular works you can come up with it still amounts to the same thing.

Regardless, no matter what secular author you can come up with it still amounts to the same thing.

Secondly, I am arguing against what people are actually saying. They are stating (without any scripture validity) that the 'books' Paul was asking at most just any ol' books he could read or at the very least it would contain some scriptures with other works to keep him educated.

I don't dispute this however can you prove that his knowledge of said poetry came 'after' his salvation or was it during his tutoring growing up that accompanied his education?

Part of my argument is that you can't prove the first except via assumptions and speculations. The main bulk of what I am arguing is that those 'books' were secular or many of them were secular as some seem to speculate. There isn't any biblical evidence that Paul was even hoping for anything more than the scriptures.

 

Again, you have no evidence that Paul was referencing only Scripture in 2 Timothy 4:13.

Only you came up with Plato's works and mythology -- no one else. You have the habit of not dealing with what people are actually saying.

You have no scriptural validity to claim that Paul wanted only Scriptural materials. He was not asking Timothy to bring "just any ol' books." Again,these notions are what you have conjured up -- no one else.

What difference would it make? How in the world is that even relevant? What's your point here? The information may have been common knowledge for all we know. But Paul used his information about what those poets had written to drive home some sanctified facts to the Athenians in Acts 17.

Again I ask -- what diference does it make as to when he learned of those poet quotes? What possible point are you trying to make?

Did you mean to say that you are arguing against the position that some of the literature Paul requested was secular?

There is no evidence that the entirety of Paul's requested reading material was Scripture.

 

In terms of Paul, it should be no surprise... you cannot be a good writer without being an accomplished reader.

 

Can you show any scholars, commentaries, or works that validate otherwise?

No, post #8 brought Plato in the thread (again your wrong), I just incorporated it into my illistration of the works Paul was asking for was not to read up on Plato's philosophies or other secular works since he was at a very low point and was being attacked on all sides. It is more imagination than fact to assume he wanted anything else when he was spiritually so low

Do you have proof of anything else? Thought not. :thumbs:

So if they were not just 'any ol' books' but where more than that, what great learned books was he asking for. How would the believers know what to get for him?

I know of no scholar or commentator who states it was anything other than the scriptures (Books) and most that most likely the 'parchments' refered to some copies of his own epistles since the usage is refering individual peices and not whole - which would be called a book.

The majority of them states that since Paul was exhorting Timothy to continue studying the word and to stay 'in the word' that his request for his own books exemplify his words because it was his primary concern.

But if you have other information I'll be glad to listen.

No, based upon Pauls writings and encouragments it would be remiss not to assume he wasn't refering to scriptures.

 

Your are absolutely correct. :thumbs:

 

My time on the BB has been curtailed considerably. And I don't have as much research time these days. However, Spurgeon said ;"We do not know what the books were about." He thought the parchments were Holy Writ though.

John Gill said "books of various sorts." He, like C.H.S., believed that the parchments were Holy Scripture.

Plato was not mentioned in post 8. Are you under the impression that Plato was a poet?!

Get off your Plato kick. The rest of the above is just speculation.

The Bible does not furnish that specific information. Timothy knew Paul very well and would have been quite familiar with his particular needs. Timothy would have known just what literature Paul was referencing.

Well, you are entitled to be wrong again.See the first part of this post.

Perhaps you can mention just a few who hold to this 'majority view.'

That's just your little old opinion.

 

Do you think you are an accomplished reader?

 

Yes, but Spurgeon also said (as in the rest of what Spurgeon stated from the OP)

Also with regard to the parchments from Spurgeon (same sermon just a little further down).

Notice he state the books were "Latin and Greek works" can you guess what those were
Also in looking into it more I found this. (scroll down about 90% of the page till you get to the books and parchments part -refering to 2 Tim 4)

No, you're correct on that (hey, you got one! :thumbs: )
I was thinking it said Greek 'works' but in looking back it said poetry.

No, I know he isn't a poet and I know that mainly because I have most of his works. Had to for school -History of Ideas course (early literiture and Greek works).

Nope

Speculation that Paul was at a low point and being attacked?

Go back and read the chapter.
J. Macarthur states of it:

Exactly, and that would have been just what Paul was 'already' telling Timothy to be reading earlier

Barnes, Clark (or Clarke - don't remember), Spurgeon, Matthew Henry, Wieseby (sp?), Ryrie, Macarthur... the list can go on and on.

Apparently I'm in great company :smilewinkgrin:

 

You bet :thumbs:

 

What's this, about the seventh time you have confused that strong Calvinist with the arch-Arminian?

Except for Spurgeon and Gill regarding "the books". They both thought the parchments were the Scriptures.

Again, because of time constraints I can't rummage around to find out what a number of scholars have thought was being discussed in 2 Timothy 4:13.

At least you have dropped your silly argument about when Paul found out about the poets he quoted in Acts 17:28 -- pre-conversion or post-conversion.

 

That was your reply as to if you consider yourself to be an accomplished reader.

So I suppose you think that qualifies you to become a good writer?

Is proper grammar, sentence structure, coherence and spelling also important to you?

 

Doesn't matter they are both pretty close to the truth.

That's ok, my short list should help you out.

Nope.

 

You're right. Sorry. I meant to say "You bet'cha!"

Yepper. :wavey:

Oh yes.
It is one of the reasons my College grade point average was 3.74.
However, there is no need in this is forum to dot every 'i' and cross every 't'.

It is more fun to sit back and watch certain persons in these debates who have no valid arguments resort to bringing up anything they can for ah-hom attacks against a person instead of sticking to the subject.

 

To which you replied "Nope". Well then, elaborate. Why does it matter when Paul found out about those secular poets? Of what possible significance is it? His knowlege of that piece of information was instrumental in witnessing to the Athenians. Therefore, if he learned of them in his pre-conversion days -- so what? And if he discovered the data after his conversion -- what possible point are you trying to make? The Lord used it as a tool in Paul's ministry regardless of any timetable in your mind.

As I have said -- knowledge of those poets was most likely common knowledge at the time.

 

What Community College did you attend?

But the thing is you don't include an "i" or a "t" in their proper places most of the time.

Your English problems are much worse than you can imagine. This may only be a forum -- but you show no sign of being a future author. Perhaps you may speak better than you write. Let's hope so anyway.

If you are "an accomplished reader" why don't you evidence better language skills? Maybe the kind of subject matter you use employs substandard English. Therefore you are unduly influenced by below average materials. You are what you read, you know.

 

TTU and Southeastern College - which is apart of SEBTS

Again, don't need to

Your ESP is very poor.

I love the fact that it irritates you so much. :laugh:

Again, there is no need to try to impress anyone on here or anywhere else unless I wish it published or graded.

I know, I am a Child of the One True and Living God and you should choose your words with more wisdom, grace, and love.

I'm am however getting really tired of your constant postings which do nothing but belittle, degrade, and put down others as well as myself in your childish endevor to exhault yourself. Thus I have had to resort (once again) to reporting your posts.

 

Do you actually believe that bunk?

Get yourself a dictionary man.

Perhaps this thread should be retitled :The Importance Of Reading, Writing And Spelling.

 

THINK for second Rip, it was INTENSIONAL. :thumbs:

It is the same thing I most always do to you when you start your garbage

 

Good try, but I don't believe you.

You have posted on threads in which I have not participated which evidence deplorable English. So your evasion is not working.

Is the above supposed to show your grace?