The Jews Did Crucify Christ

I already did that. Clearly, since the Jews in power had no authority to condemn anyone, they, very literally, did not kill Christ. The literal persons who killed Christ were Romans.

Now, as far as the Bible is concerned, it does not hold a specific creed, race, or religion responsible for Jesus' death.

 

Acts 2:22, 23 - "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain."

Zechariah 12:10: "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

Acts 7:1, 52: “ Men, brethren, fathers...Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers."

Acts 13:27, 28 - "For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain."

Matthew 27:1 - “When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death.”

Matthew 27:20 - “But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas and destroy Jesus.”

I Thessalonians 2:14-16 - "For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them {the Jews} to the uttermost."

6. Matthew 21:33ff - "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."

 

Who or what is "Hashem"? </font>[/QUOTE]I believe that "Hashem" is the politically correct (i.e. Messianic Jewish) name for G-d.

Tim

 

Technically, the Romans killed Jesus.

Crucifixion was the Roman means of death.

Stoning was the Jewish means of death.

And what about this:

Isaiah 53:[5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

[6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

 

Who or what is "Hashem"? </font>[/QUOTE]I believe that "Hashem" is the politically correct (i.e. Messianic Jewish) name for G-d.

Tim </font>[/QUOTE]So I guess this means that Messianic Jews subscribe to Anselm's "Satisfaction" Theory of the Atonement?

 

Well, even technically speaking as you say or literally speaking as Johnv says,

The scriptures quoted above are abundantly clear that God holds the Jews responsible for Jesus crucifixion and death.

Acts 2:22, 23 - " Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain."

Aren't the above verses clear on this topic?

 

"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand. He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors. "

God killed Jesus.

 

Well, to be real technical about it - no one killed Jesus - He offered up His life of His own volition, submitting to the Will of the Father.

 

Amen! I agree.

In the physical sense it was the Romans who crucified Jesus. The Jews instigated the crucification, but the Romans actually did the deed.

To say that the Jews are the ones who crucified Jesus because they encouraged Pilate is equivalent to saying that if I encouraged a potential suicidal jumper to jump from a building, that I would be legally accountable for his actions.

 

Amen, LadyEagle.... that's the most biblically accurate answer yet.

If me taking responsibility for Jesus' death makes me politically correct, then so be it.

 

If you're going to be literal, then that means that Jews who were not in Israel are not to blame. For that matter, it says "men", so the women in Israel are are not to blame either. For that matter, there were Gentile men in Israel, so they must be to blame.

I think you're taking the verse out of context to suit your own belief that one specific religion is responsible for Jesus' death. Jesus himself counters that prior to his death, when he heals the blind man. People believe that the man was blind because of the inhierited sins of his parents. Jesus pretty much told them they were full of traditionalist nonsense.

 

There is no doubt that this would be morally wrong.

I am not sure what criminal law would be broken. Do you know which law that would be? Could a person then be arrested and charged with a crime?

 

If you're going to be literal, then that means that Jews who were not in Israel are not to blame. For that matter, it says "men", so the women in Israel are are not to blame either. For that matter, there were Gentile men in Israel, so they must be to blame.

I think you're taking the verse out of context to suit your own belief that one specific religion is responsible for Jesus' death. Jesus himself counters that prior to his death, when he heals the blind man. People believe that the man was blind because of the inhierited sins of his parents. Jesus pretty much told them they were full of traditionalist nonsense. </font>[/QUOTE]JohnV,

If we're going to bend language as you have here, maybe homosexuals CAN say that marriage is whatever anyone wants it to be too.

The clear message from Acts 2:22,23 and Acts 5:30 among other texts is that God did place blame upon the unbelieving Jews OF THAT TIME for the death of Christ. It's not antisemetic, it's just history. Why must we deny it? Of course it was foreordained, and of course all believers benefited from it. But the historical facts still should not be denied, just so someone won't be offended.

Tim

 

by Mark O:

He died for our sins. That's what the Bible said in 1 Cor. 15:3 -

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

But, like you say, ultimately, it was the Father who crucified Christ as the sacrificial lamb for the sins of His elect.

However , it was Christ who laid His life down, voluntarily, and Had he chosen not to do so, no man can take it from Him, no matter what they did, Jew or Gentile.

John 10:18 -

10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father

 

Jesus death was due to: God's plan of salvation, Jesus obeying God's will, the sins of humanity, the Jewish leaders and mob calling for His execution, Judas Iscariot's betrayal, the Roman executioners, Jesus voluntarily laying down His life for us, and it was the means by which Jesus could enter and conquer death and send the Holy Spirit, Power from On High to believers in the Body of Christ.

 

I think what you are saying vaspers is, in brief, "All of the above" and I must agree.
It was physically done by Roman soldiers, at the consent of Pilate, on the insistance of the Jews, according to the plan of God, voluntarily by Jesus because of our sins.

 

Yes, I must second that and agree with Vaspers as well.