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The Journey Home

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by thessalonian, Jul 1, 2003.

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  1. thessalonian

    thessalonian New Member

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    The Jouney Home, 6/30/03

    I don't know how many of you get this show with host Marcus Grodie. Each night he has guests who converted from various denominations to Catholicism. I didn't catch the name of the guests tonight but found it intriguing. Most of these conversion stories, especially where a pastor converts start with the man. The woman was the one who got the ball rolling this time with a very interesting dilema. I believe it is in timothy where Paul says that a woman shouldn't wear what a man does and that she should wear a head covering. Well the woman on the show was the wife of an Evangelical Menonite. She started studying what a woman should wear. The verse mentioned above gave her problems. Some pastors who she listened to said that it was a past custom and not to worry about it. Some, that you should wear a dress but that it was not essential. Some said that women MUST wear dresses. Still others had it down to the sleave length. Of course each of these claimed that there view was supported by scripture and each claimed equal validity to the others. Some stated that it had to do with submissiveness to the husband. This of course created quite a conflict in her with those who said that a woman had to disobey her husband if he said that it was not neccessary and go with the word of God. Quite problematic to say the least. What was she to do? Well she decided to go with the conservative view. This caused problems in her marriage and for her husband who was a pastor. Parishioners (or whatever the menonites call them) started noticing that all she wore was dresses. He didn't agree with her interprutation and also didn't require it of their daughter. Well to make a long story short, the finally decided there had to be an authority outside of scripture to keep watch over issues like this. Of course there are a hundred of them. Baptism, the Lord's Supper, etc. etc.. Who's right? Does it matter. Seems to me it does.

    I thought this would be a nice little counter to Mozeir's Jack Chick posts. Perhaps with a little more class however. Check out Mr. Grodie. He comes on at 7pm Central I believe. I don't always catch him. But I am glad I did tonight.

    Blessings

    I am still scaling back my posting activities. But I may post from time to time. I just cant spend the kind of time I was before. Enjoy discussing this one.
     
    #1 thessalonian, Jul 1, 2003
  2. MikeS

    MikeS New Member

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    It's 10 PM Pacific Time and I'm just sitting down to watch the show here in the computer room. "The Journey Home" is my favorite EWTN show (but the theme music drives my wife the musician straight up the wall!)

    What's also nice is that all the shows, back to 1997 I think, are available for free listening on the Web. A search for "Journey Home Archives" should turn up the site.
     
    #2 MikeS, Jul 1, 2003
  3. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves New Member

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    This is a bit off topic...

    But I attended a Saturday morning Mass at the Shrine of the Most Blessed Sacrament in Hanceville, AL (which was founded by Mother Angelica of EWTN, where she also resides), and about 75% of the women were wearing a head covering. It was a Latin Mass, and lasted about an hour and twenty minutes (which really surprised me for a Sat. morning Mass!). But, yeah, the head covering kind of surprised me. I liked it though.

    So, that's my story. ;)

    God bless,

    Grant
     
    #3 GraceSaves, Jul 1, 2003
  4. Priscilla Ann

    Priscilla Ann Member

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    By coincidence, as I was reading this thread, I was channel surfing on the TV and came across the last five minutes of "The Journey Home". As Marcus Grodi closed the program, some of his last words were, "Trust the Church".

    I have been watching "The Journey Home" for a number of years, and it seems that the bottom line for Catholic converts always comes down to this: "Trust the Church". Is my interpretation correct? Is this what ultimately leads people to become Catholic? I'm really struggling to understand as the conversion stories on "The Journey Home" always leave me "not getting it".

    Thanks for any insight you can provide.

    God Bless!

    Priscilla Ann
     
    #4 Priscilla Ann, Jul 1, 2003
  5. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    The question you posed I think is what it often comes down to-

    Just who gives your own interpertation of scripture authority?
     
    #5 Brother Adam, Jul 1, 2003
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Couldn't stay away, eh, Thess...? [​IMG]
     
    #6 Bro. Curtis, Jul 1, 2003
  7. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert New Member

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    Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,

    Brother Ed
     
    #7 CatholicConvert, Jul 1, 2003
  8. thessalonian

    thessalonian New Member

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    Seems to me that if one is not Catholic, he must conclude that what is not important to God is that you have the truth, but that you came up with whatever you have on your own. Further, I hear it over and over in Protestant circles..."Well, that's not essential doctrine". Seems like only about 2 percent of the Bible is essential doctrine. So why did God give us 1500 or so pages if so much of it is optional? Heck, I even hear on Protestant radio how those who don't believe in the trinity are Christians. Of course then others say that the trinity is essential doctrine and that those who don't believe it are going to hell. So we have another dilema. Who has the authority to say what is and isn't essential doctrine? By the way Bob Ryan, are you going to give me an answer about Kelly sometime? Thanks. Just throwning a few things out there.
     
    #8 thessalonian, Jul 2, 2003
  9. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    Priscilla Ann:

    Just possible that God is protecting you from falling victim to another
    Good Soul Done Gone !!

    "Trust the Church". Is my interpretation correct? Is this what ultimately
    leads people to become Catholic? I'm really struggling to understand as
    the conversion stories on "The Journey Home" always leave
    me "not getting it".

    Confusing; Right ? That's not the nature of God is it?

    God speaks to you just fine where you're at. He doesn't need the RCC
    to be his spokesman. Christ pulls at your heartstrings even if you have
    no church. Salvation comes through believing that Jesus rose from the
    dead/having died for your sins which are forgiven if you ask and repent
    of them. That is the gospel story. Jesus said "Whosoever believes in me
    and lives shall never die".

    1 John 5:11,12 "He who has the Son has life".
    How do you get the Son?....by believing. Faith comes by hearing and hearing
    by the Word of God (believing).

    St John 6:29
    "This is the work of God; that ye believe on Him whom He has sent."

    Believe On Him. Don't "Trust the Church"
    There's nothing in the Gospel Story about trusting a church.
    That fallacy has come from the RCC...not from the bible.

    It's a good thing that you're not 'getting it'. I don't ''get it'' either.
    Praise God that He is protecting and keeping you.

    Singer
     
    #9 Singer, Jul 2, 2003
  10. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    The Journey Home is for unstable souls who liked to be told what to believe rather than mining the truths of the Word of God themselves. Unstable souls also get caught up in the cults. This Journey Home is the road to an undisclosed time period at an alleged place called Purgatory. As we see it, there is not much to do with a glad heart at this stop-off place or limbo.
     
    #10 Ray Berrian, Jul 2, 2003
  11. Priscilla Ann

    Priscilla Ann Member

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    Brother Ed:

    So, are you saying it was the writings of the early church fathers, Scott Hahn, and Steve Ray that led you to the Catholic Church?

    I remember reading Scott and Kim Hahn's book, Rome Sweet Home. Was this one of the books that influenced you?

    Blessings to you, Brother Ed!

    Priscilla Ann
     
    #11 Priscilla Ann, Jul 2, 2003
  12. thessalonian

    thessalonian New Member

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    Thanks for you post Ray. It actually does add to this conversation, even though it has no basis in reality. The darkness allows light to be seen. In your world, truth is what one determines it to be through mental gymnastics. One can calculate it using the Bible Alone. If that is so, why are there 30,000 wrong answers. Why do 99% of these wrong answers have their roots in the reformation and sola scriptura. The biggest contributer to division in Christianity ever. Is division of God ray? I have had some tell me that God uses it to keep the devil off gaurd. [​IMG]

    [ July 02, 2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: thessalonian ]
     
    #12 thessalonian, Jul 2, 2003
  13. Stephen III

    Stephen III New Member

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    I think what the church actually says is that the ultimate guide for a beleiver is ones own conscience. The Gospel itself is one of the guides utilized in developing a conscience. And because so much emphasis is rightly put on the scriptures as a guide we must endeavor to understand them properly.
    A fully developed conscience is what we strive for in our individual attempts to understand the Gospel. We have many claiming the authority to understand the Gospel and thereby influencing our conscience. One is the Church, another is the individual's own intellect and interpretation skills (or lack thereof.)
    Both claim the right to interpret scripture from scripture. Both claim the Holy Spirit as their Guide.
    One has two thousand years of experience in handling every conceivable aberration of scripture and is still standing and sticking by their original guns.

    The other has an earnestness and zeal but, comparatively speaking, a minute exposure to the subject matter and it's various interpretations and their ramifications, and is potentially as fickle as a reed in the wind,-blowing any way the wind blows. (bv the way, it is my understanding that the name Simon refers to a reed, -makes sense then why Jesus would change his name before his "on this Rock" statement)

    As for me, I'll trust the conscience guidance ability of the tried and true.
     
    #13 Stephen III, Jul 2, 2003
  14. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    Thess,

    Why are you so concerned with what BobRyan thinks about me?

    You know, for him to answer you would take an act of judgment on his part, and to be perfectly honest with you, an act of gossip.

    Your persistence in seeking his 'opinion' of me is not only diminishing my respect for you, but is in more than one way YOU tempting him to sin.

    Just thought you should be aware of that.

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
    #14 3AngelsMom, Jul 2, 2003
  15. thessalonian

    thessalonian New Member

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    Well, then I guess I am in good company:

    1 Corinthians 5:1
    It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.

    No, I am asking him to judge your words on this board and your attack on the trinity which is an attack on God. That is not gossip. You have publicly denied the trinity. Further, interestingly enough it is unlikely that whatever position he takes I will agree with it. If you like I will address it in more general terms.

    Bob Ryan,

    If an SDA denies the trinity are they Christian.

    Hope that helps.

    Blessings.
     
    #15 thessalonian, Jul 2, 2003
  16. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    Thess,

    You are NOT asking him to judge my words!

    What a cop out!

    You are asking him to make a SALVIFIC judgment towards someone based on a statement of belief.

    No matter how you word it, it is NOT within your capacity as a fellow Christian, to make that sort of judgement!

    You are Catholic. According to YOUR logic, I could safely, without fear of sinning ask every person here to judge whether you are saved or not, since you ignore the Commandments of God.

    NOW, is that right?

    And I am sorry, but no matter how you slice it, my lack of belief in your 'trinity', DOES NOT take away from my belief in GOD.

    I have not in any way, shape or form launched an attack on God.

    I am attacking what I believe to be a false doctrine.

    God is not 'the trinity'.

    His name is Yahweh.

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
    #16 3AngelsMom, Jul 2, 2003
  17. thessalonian

    thessalonian New Member

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    Kelly,

    Yes, I am asking him to judge your words.
    If God is a Trinity (and he is) then yes you are attacking him whether you know it or not. Sorry if I am not sugar coating it for you. It will be up to him to judge you in the end. You are also mixing up my theology with that of a Protestant when you say I am asking him to make a salvific judgement. It is apparent that you have not learned anything from us. Or rather you still hold to your view of what Catholicism is regardless of the facts. It is within my ability to judge false theology. I do not go the next step and by that false theology judge someone damned or saved. That is up to God alone.

    Go ahead and ask everyone if they think a Catholic (or me if you like because I am a Catholic) are saved. It matters not to me if you do.

    The problem in all of this is not my words, but your concsience.

    Blessings
     
    #17 thessalonian, Jul 2, 2003
  18. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom <img src =/3mom.jpg>

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    Thess,
    I didn't ask you if you would CARE if I asked them. I asked you if I would be SINNING, or tempting others to SIN by asking them.

    I DON'T CARE that you are asking him, nor do I care about what he might say.

    I am more concerned with the fact that you seem to think that it is ok to pass that kind of judgment.

    Yes, we ALL KNOW that only God KNOWS. But that doesn't make it ok to say that we THINK they are or are not saved.

    Get it?
     
    #18 3AngelsMom, Jul 2, 2003
  19. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Dr. William P. Grady was reared in NYC as a strict Roman Catholic. He offers this definition of the Apocrapha. 'From the Greek apokryphos meaning "obscure"; those writings of dubious authenticity belong to the pre-Christian era, yet excluded from the O.T. text. Although declared inspired and canonical by the Roman Catholic Council of Trent in 1546, the Apocrypha has remained unacceptable to Bible-believing Christians. Significantly, these dozen plus books can be found scattered throughout the text of codices Vaticanus (B) and Sinaiticus (X).' He is a graduate of Hyles-Anderson College, earning a B.S. in Pastoral Theology and a M. Ed. In Christian Education. The received a D.D. from Anchor Baptist College in Pisgah Forest, North Carolina and a Th.M. in English Bible from Baptist International School of Theology and a Ph.D. in History from Baptist International Seminary. Quote is from "Final Authority" first page of Glossary of Terms. {end quote} This is why the non-Catholic canon does not include your books smiled on by the Council of Trent.

    Scripture must agree with each other and so we find the concept of Purgatory ridiculous.
    Why was this alleged doctrine introduced to into the Christian world? I'll let some other non-Catholic give you the reason.

    There is no valid reason for Purgatory, because God speaking directly to and through the Apostle Paul has told us that the second that a Christian dies he or she goes into the Presence of Christ above into the place called Heaven. Study II Corinthians 5:8 and Philippians 1:23 either in the Greek or any translation and you will come up with the same clear answer. Jesus is not lying to us when He says in affect, sudden death, sudden glory above. If He is playing games with our minds then this foreboding state of existence, Purgatory, is true and we should welcome this spiritual reality with open arms.

    It is my understanding that even priests have to pass through this unpopular limbo and unwarranted entity. I wonder if the pope gets a 'free pass' because he is supposed to be the crème de la crème of the Catholic religion?

    Jesus would not be sending us mixed messages as to Purgatory and Heaven in that He tells us that at our death we have a lively hope because He is praying for us in Heaven {Hebrews 7:25; I John 2:2} His intercession get us safely into Heaven, otherwise, what is the purpose of His praying for Christians? He through this ministry is insuring our grand and wonderful admittance into His Presence above, completely bypassing the alleged Purgatory.

    Philippians 1:21 suggests to us via Paul that to die is a great, great advantage for the Christian. Let's not take hope away from other brothers and sisters in Christ. The Apostle Paul said, 'For me to live is Christ, and to die is Purgatory.' Wait! I made a mistake, the correct reading is, 'For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.'
     
    #19 Ray Berrian, Jul 2, 2003
  20. thessalonian

    thessalonian New Member

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    "I am more concerned with the fact that you seem to think that it is ok to pass that kind of judgment."

    It is not okay to make a judgement on what is essential Christian doctrine and what is not? The Circumcision party expressed a belief in Jesus in Galations and yet Pauls words to them were less than kind. John says that if someone brings false teaching to your door, not to eaven welcome them. If you do not know God in his triune nature you do not know God. Sorry if that is hard.
     
    #20 thessalonian, Jul 2, 2003
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