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Featured The knowledge of good and evil being the cause to the fallen nature.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Nov 25, 2022.

  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Show us from these passages (exegete them) how Adam, knowing about evil, is the cause of man's corruption. I look forward to this new exegesis that no other Baptist scholar has ever presented before.

    *Genesis 2:15-25*
    The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

    *Genesis 3:1-24*
    Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths. And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. But the Lord God called to the man and said to him, “Where are you?” And he said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, and I hid myself.” He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.” Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” The Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.” And to Adam he said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’ cursed is the ground because of you; in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you; and you shall eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” The man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. And the Lord God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them. Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps Paul had never read Genesis 2 and 3 when he wrote to the Roman church.

    *Romans 5:12-21*
    Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
     
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  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Trivialize the effect of rebellion. AustinC has given you scripture that clearly shows the focus of the fall, and resulting sin nature, is from rebellion not acquiring knowledge.

    Peace to you
     
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  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    LOL. It has already been explained.
    God infinite good.
    Man being made good is finite.
    Genesis 2:17, Genesis 2:25, Genesis 3:7, Genesis 3:22.
    1 John 2:27. Do it yourself with God's help.
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Romans 5 talks about what Adam did and explains nothing about the knowledge of good and evil.
     
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Correct!!! That’s the point. When the Apostle Paul, under inspiration of God Holy Spirit, teaches about the fall and the effect on all humanity, his focus is on what Adam did, his rebellion, not on the knowledge he gained afterward.

    You would do well to do likewise.

    peace to you
     
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  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Romans 5 goes with, not against Genesis 2:17 - Genesis 3:22. To correct understand Romans 5.
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Exegete the passages and show us. I provided all the text earlier and you have avoided exegeting these passages to show your assertion has merit.
     
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  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'm trying to follow the arguments here (looks like more than a couple).

    To make it easier I'm going to try and make a simplified outline of what the Bible says.

    1. Adam transgressed God's command.
    2. God announced a curse upon the land and announced Adam would eat by the labor of his hand.
    3. Adam's eyes were opened to knowing good and evil in such a way he "became like God".
    4. God cast Adam out so that Adam would not eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.
     
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  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The assertion of the OP, as I understand it, is that the “cause” of the sin nature in Adam was his acquiring the knowledge of good and evil, not that he rebelled/sinned against God by eating the fruit.

    peace to you
     
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    My whole argument is based on Adam and Eve aquiring the knowledge of good and evil. And the knowledge of evil in it causes the sin nature. Romans 5 says nothing to disallow this understanding.
     
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Of course it does. It gives the reason for the sin nature as rebellion against God (sin) not knowledge gained.

    You are making the “argument from silence” error. That is, since scripture doesn’t specifically reject your assertion, it is true.

    peace to you
     
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  13. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    As a result of Adam's rebellion:

    "Man by nature is able to reform his life to some extent.

    "He can turn from some forms of sin.

    "But he is unable by nature
    to change the governing disposition of his nature.

    "This is proved by Jer. 13: 23, which reads:

    "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?
    Then may ye also do good that are accustomed to do evil."

    "The sinner is accustomed to do evil.

    "Therefore it is impossible for him to turn from evil (or sin)
    until his governing disposition is changed."

    from: http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF Books II/Simmons - A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine.pdf
     
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  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Adam's disobedence is not in dispute. But the denial the knowledge of good and evil did cause the sinful nature. The reason we must where clothing. Genesis 3:7.
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, futility.

    Thanks for the conversation

    peace to you
     
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  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I understand your argument. It isn't supported in Genesis 2 or Genesis 3, therefore it isn't found in Romans 5 either.
     
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Ah...I see. That idea (actually, even the idea that there was a change in Adam's nature as opposed to God's command revealing Adam's human nature) is not biblical.

    But since it is not in the Bible, why argue about it? Christians believe a lot of things that are not in the Bible.
     
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  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Ah, God's curse did not result in the fall. I fear your absurdity argument has sailed into oblivious.
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are twisting my answer. The sweat of the brow was the result of God cursing the ground.
     
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Adam didn't have sweat glands in his brow before he rebelled? :Cool
     
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