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Featured The Law as a Tutor in Galatians 3

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JonC, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,

    That is what the Torah does.
     
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, that is what the Torah does. Scripture has shut up everyone under sin - Jew and Gentile alike are on the same footing.
     
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    A couple of scripture verses come to mind.

    Matthew 5:48
    Jesus set the standard as perfection. We, of course, are aware that it is impossible to meet that standard. At least, I'm not able to.

    James 2:10
    I think it's implied here that if one could keep the Law perfectly, he would qualify for entrance into heaven. The problem is, of course, that we can't.

    Another problem is that a holy God cannot let any sin go unpunished. He cuts nobody any6n slack. And even though I'm a pretty good person, just an occasional sin here and there, that's not good enough and I'm under eternal condemnation.

    So that's the purpose of the law. When we read it, we will throw up our hands in frustration. "Why, who can live up to that standard?" we ask. So the Law teaches us the necessity of perfect obedience, ad the reality that we have failed.

    That's why Jesus came to take our sins upon himself. Jesus, who had no sin, took the penalty we deserved.

    And that's why our message to sinful men is, you can't get into heaven with your own righteousness. But a righteous One has taken sin upon Himself; has taken our penalty upon Himself. Run to Jesus and plead for His mercy.

    That's the purpose of the Law. To teach us we can't keep it. To point us to Jesus who did, and who died so we wouldn't have to.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The law was given unto Isreal under the old Covenant, and now under the new One, we have it written upon our hearts, have the new nature, and have the Holy spirit to empower us, to allow us to live as we ought!

    And jesus said that the work of the Spirit will be to convict the world, he did NOT say the law job to do that!
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The 10 commandments existed before creation....therefore before Israel existed.
    Sin is the transgression of the LAW.....all men will answer to the 10 commandments and have to be perfect. All will fail .Only those in jesus will be covered and declared righteous by His law keeping in our stead...

    No law= no sin=no gospel.....All men have it in the conscience although broken by the fall when all died in Adam.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yet the Law contains elements that were transgressions to those under the Law, but were not sin for those not under the Law. While Paul uses the Law as the Torah in Galatians, I do not know that he means it to be merely the moral aspect of the Law (otherwise, he should have exalted Peter in reconstructing the Law).

    I agree that the Ten Commandments are moral absolutes regardless of whether one is “under the Law” or not. But the issue here is that Paul is not speaking of the Ten Commandments alone. He is dealing with the Torah (why else would Peter be wrong to hold the Gentile Sinners to the standards of the Law?).

    I guess the part where we disagree is that, while I agree that transgressing the Law for the Jews equates to sin, I do not believe that sin is dependent on the Law (as you point out, sin existed prior to the Torah). Gentiles did not sin under the Law (the Torah) but they did sin (the law written in their heart). Peter would have transgressed the Law in Galatians 2, if still under the Law, but it would not have been a “sin” for not under the Law.

    Given the context of Paul’s use of the Law in Galatians, you seem to indicate that before the Law (and there was a time before the Law according to Paul - the Law came over 400 years after the covenant with Abraham) there was no sin. My conclusion is that the Law is not the Ten Commandments as used by Paul in the text, but the Torah.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    That is why the law is broken up as moral ceremonial and judicial....

    The moral law is for all time

    the ceremonial and judicial law was only in the theocracy of ot israel...with the moral law included in it.

    the ceremonial and judicial have fulfilled their purpose...the moral is still in effect.
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I can understand that the Torah is inclusive of the morality under which all of man is subject (God’s law). But I do not know that it is appropriate to alter the Torah by dividing it into categories (moral, ceremonial, and judicial) and choosing what applies. God’s law in general, His moral law - I agree. But the context in Galatians is the Torah - and it does not appear that the issue with Peter was a moral issue unless he was under the Law as a whole. It seems that once it is established it is absolute (cannot be set aside or added to). Perhaps you are correct, and I just don’t see it. Are there passages that support dividing the Law (again, the Torah) and honoring parts while dismissing others as non-applicable?
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    In the context of Galatians you believe that Paul is speaking of one aspect of the Torah when he refers to the Law?

    I do understand that we can view the Torah in three parts. But if you notice, this is not what Paul does in Galatians. He seem to speak of the Law as a whole - disobedience on one point is disobedience (here ceremonial is mixed with moral but elsewhere God's moral law is highlighted outside of Torah as it applies to Gentiles). What I am looking for is Scripture that divides Torah and allows Jews to choose what is to be obeyed, or that nullifies Torah in part but not in whole. Where I am not following you is I don't see Paul as speaking of one aspect of the Torah when he refers to the Law (if so, it seems that he continually shifts meaning and leaves the reader to decide if he is speaking of a moral or ceremonial aspect). Do you think he is admonishing Peter for uplifting the moral Torah or the Ceremonial?
     
    #30 JonC, Mar 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2014
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes...he is speaking of the ceremonial
     
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So the ceremonial Law kept the Jews, "tutored" them until that faith came (I'm sure that we both agree that it is inappropriate to change meanings within a passage). It is curious as to why so many point to 3:24 as pertaining to the Ten Commandments, but I had honestly never considered that Paul divided Torah in application.
     
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