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The Little Pagan Drummer Boy

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Aaron, Dec 26, 2002.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    It would be nice if you would stick to the topic at hand and leave off ad hominem attacks.

    You are misrepresenting my views, but at least you provided links to them.

    I believe that our redemption was accomplished through the Death of Christ, which is often what people mean when they say the cross.

    The cross was real, but the meaning is symbolic of the curse underwhich Christ was placed, and the kind of death that curse brings.

    I believe in the bodily resurrection, but Paul states very plainly that thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

    In otherwords, I suppose our glorified bodies might be compared to our cursed bodies as much as a rose can be compared to its seed.

    And you should notice that no one recognized Christ's resurrected body until their eyes were opened.

    Now that's all I will say about that in this thread. I'll be happy to interact with you on those subjects in the threads in which they exist. You obviously know where they are.

    I have been waiting a long time for your response to my answeres to your positions here.

    And I am calm ;) . It is the improper use of Ad hominem that is the mark of desperation.
     
  2. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    I wasn't intending to misrepresent your views although I believe I didn't. I also wasn't intending to specifically debate those issues that I provided links to. My only intention was to echo the sentiments of those who feel you are too negative, and the purpose of citing those various threads was to demonstrate that you have a tendency to take a minority position on certain issues and shove it in the faces of others as though it is a given fact. As far as I can tell there really isn't a proper forum to say such a thing and I'm not issuing a formal complaint about you or any such thing. You seem like a decent and genuine enough guy, I just think you're a bit misguided and over zealous where it isn't necessary to be so.

    I won't engage you in that other debate because a)I can see by the many threads I have read through in this forum it would be an excersise in futility and b) whether intentional or not you never addressed my original query in that thread, you only tried to bait me into an irrelevant argument.

    All that said I apologise for taking this thread so far off topic.

    I believe God desires us to work and worship and do all that we do to the best of our ability. In that I see a clear distinction between God taking pleasure in our daily pursuits and our being wrongly motivated to do our best under the false pretense that we are somehow contributing to our own salvation.

    The little drummer boy reflects the former while your interpretation reflects a spurious more fictional drummer boy (if that's possible) that is not intended.

    [ December 30, 2002, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Travelsong ]
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Thank you all for your efforts to keep this on topic! :cool:
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Travelsong,

    Chill, Bro. No one is shoving anything in anyone's face. No one is trying to be manipulative. No one is trying to force anything on anyone. You have the right to abstain. Quite frankly I am surprised at your vendetta against me.

    Have it your way.

    This thread is all yours. [​IMG]
     
  5. redwhitenblue

    redwhitenblue New Member

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    I believe that the little drummer boy was coming to Jesus with a broken spirit....he says he is a "Poor boy" with nothing wonderful to offer a king....if *that* my friend is not a broken spirit...I don't know what is. I believe the King was truely pleased with this little boy, he came with a sincere heart and played his drum...the ONLY thing he had to give even though he (the little boy) himself had nothing. Peganism? Please don't give peganism so much credit.

    karen
     
  6. JonathanDT

    JonathanDT New Member

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    I think the problem here is your view of Christ seems to be much different from mine and many others. Really it's a doctrine issue that probably doesn't belong on this board. I think Jesus was and is compassionate and loving, and would have been overjoyed at this little boy offering his best, his all. The closest example in the Bible I know of is when the woman poured perfume on Jesus, Jesus told the disciples that she did a beautiful thing for him and even forgave her sins! I read that and would interpret that he was pleased.
     
  7. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Well, Aaron's certainly convinced me!

    I'm going to stop giving money to my church. After all, there's nothing I can do to earn God's favour, and it doesn't please God.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Amen. It that's the reason you were giving you were giving for the wrong reasons.
     
  9. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    So what, pray tell, is the right reason to offer anything to God, be it drumming or cash?

    You've said plenty about bad attitudes. Time to show us the alternative.
     
  10. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    After reading this entire thread; (mostly because I thought it was a poke at 'secular' christmas songs) I will offer my two cents worth, as it were.
    Forget about whether this is a little boy offering a gift of his talent to Jesus. This is not the issue at all.
    Forget about offering our best, no matter how pitiful it may be.
    Forget about offering a broken spirit and a contrite heart.
    Let's all look at a principle here which I believe you ALL are missing.
    How does God view our offerings? Like He did Able's or Cain's? BOTH of them boys offered all they had. And I suppose they offer the BEST they had. Able was a hard working boy. So was Cain. (have YOU ever tilled a field?) BUT GOD! And this is the issue! We learn from the story of the very first two offerings just EXACTLY what it is that God wants us to offer HIM. God does not want our talents, our skills, our knowledge, our 'anything'. Else; WHY OH WHY would He pronounce, "Behold, all things become new"?
    So what is the solution? Simple.
    Go to Romans 12:1-2. As you ponder this one, ponder also, "I live, yet not I but CHRIST liveth in me!" "The life I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God who gave Himself for me"
    Put it all together;
    1. If you think you can offer God ANYTHING other than what He will Accept according to Scripture then you are in the same boat as Cain.
    2. If you offer, your own body, to yield to Christ living in you, (Not for you but actually LIVING HIS LIFE IN YOU)) then you can get in the boat with Able.
    The "Little Drummer Boy" was a Cainite.
    AV1611Jim [​IMG]
     
  11. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    A Cainite? What is that? Is it good or bad?
    Gina
     
  12. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    av1611jim said:

    The "Little Drummer Boy" was a Cainite.

    The Little Drummer Boy is a fictional character in a sentimental Christmas song. There's about as much evidence that he is a "Cainite" as that he is one of Santa's elves.

    In any case, the line of Cain is extinct, having perished in the Flood.
     
  13. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Back to the original question: Is God really pleased with our finest gifts?

    Were the whole realm of nature mine,
    That were a present far to small.
    Love so amazing, so divine,
    Demands my soul, my life, my all.


    Aside: Cain's offering was rejected because it was not an offering of a life.
     
  14. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    God judges the heart, Aaron. Yes, He is pleased when we do the best we can. He deserves far more, as the hymn indicates, but that does not mean He does not recognize the attitude of a heart that wants to give Him everything one has, or the best of what one has.

    In line with that, it was not the substance of Cain's offering which was rejected, but the heart with which it was given. We can see this in God's remonstrance to Cain in Genesis 4:6-7.

    And again, if it is only a life gift or sacrifice that pleases God then why are so many non-bloody sacrifices given directions for in Leviticus? Why the firstfruits offerings?

    The widow who gave her pittance to the Lord in Mark 12:41-44 gave the best she had to give -- and it pleased God. "Drummer Boy" is a pretend story/song saying the same thing.
     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    It amazes me that someone who can quote so much Scripture can have so little understanding of it. :rolleyes:

    I don't see the word "heart" anywhere in the Scriptures you cited. What exactly was it that God was saying to Cain?

    [ January 16, 2003, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  16. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    Exactly Aaron.
    Cain's offering was NOT a life.
    Able's was.
    Drummer Boy's was not.
    Paul's was.
    Get my point?
    I live, yet not I but Christ liveth in me.
    This is the only "gift" (if indeed we could call it a gift) we could hope to offer. A yielded life for Christ to live His life through.
    And only this will God accept, provided we do it by faith, for without it , it is impossible to please Him.
    Av1611Jim
     
  17. JonathanDT

    JonathanDT New Member

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    Aaron, that's the exact same thing I think when I read many of your posts.

    Anyway, not to speak for Helen, but I believe she might have been referring to:
    Hebrews 11:4 "By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead."

    av1611jim, you do realize that the Drummer boy you're talking about is a fictional character, right? What do you expect the song to say, what would make you happy? If the boy imeediately dedicated his life to the baby? Just like the shepherds did, right? Or what about the magi two years later? NO ONE in the Christmas story did any more then what the song says the drummer boy did. We're not told the rest of this story. We're not told what happens later in the drummer boy's life, maybe in this fictional world he grows up and becomes a famouse tax collector or even a certain zealot. It's a fictional story that we don't know the ending for, so how on earth can you critize the boy for not giving his life? If you are somehow going to insist on critizing this fictional character, you should also slam the shepherds for not giving a gift of life, and hey, the magi just gave innanimate objects, so obviously they were wrong too.

    [Edit: a couple typos]

    [ January 20, 2003, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: JonathanDT ]
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Abel's faith is why he offered a life. By faith he understood that without the shedding the blood there is no remission of sin.
     
  19. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Maybe the reason you have a reputation for being negative and contentious is because you're negative and contentious?

    You never have anything positive to say, unless you're congratulating someone for attacking those who believe differently than you.

    I would also add, as the point has been made here, if we're not to make offerings to God of our talents, then what are our talents for?
     
  20. DanielFive

    DanielFive New Member

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    The words 'pot' and 'kettle' spring to mind.

    Interesting that you waited almost eight months until Aaron wasn't around before you made this post.

    Well done.
     
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