The Lord Opened Lydia's Heart

Just to let you know, if you are interested, I am starting a new thread on the order of faith and regeneration in the gospels.

 

It is going very well. Though I must admit at times I wonder why God would ask me to be a part of such a wonderfully blessed work. But I praise Him for the blessing. I am over joyed to hear God moving and growing His Church through you. Wouldn't it be nice to peek at His blue print (plan) every once in a while just see if 'we' are on track. :laugh:

I know that Reformed. I never really try to convince you, I just show the verses that that speak differently and let you evaluate them. But as I stated earlier about the verse I was 'personally' curious about. Meaning I had some question on it.
If 'grace' is God's unmeritted favor, then how can God 'give grace' to the humble. It indicates the person is FIRST humble and gives 'grace'. We see it because it FIRST states that God resists the proud BUT... (maybe that would be an interesting thread) Any thoughts??

These verse do not speak of Faith being given before salvation nor of Regeneration being before salvation.

 

I agree, but I would not say 'regeneration', but ".. the work of 'illuminating' .."(as swaimj stated) or 'enabling'.

My main problem is the word itself. Regenerate means to make new, as in "we are a NEW creation IN Christ". New also meaning no longer the the old and therefore 'born' as something new. All of these are illistrative NOT of the become alive to become something else. We are ONLY alive IN Christ and that is specific to BEING a New Creation. Being "in" Christ can only be said of a beleiver who has been baptized 'into' Christ being made apart of His body, thus the 'in Christ'.

We are not made 'alive' to choose life and them become 'more alive'. I realize you don't see it that way, but if you take the word at it's meaning there is no other alternitive (as I see it) but that 'regeneration' IS salvation not the precurser to it.

Wisely spoken. But what I gave is evidenced in and by the text regarding the present conutinous action of the person believing IS a Child of God.

I agree without question. However, that issue is not spoken of regarding the verse in question. It does not deal with the origin of "belief" but the state of being as one who is presently continuing in beleif.

Here again is another problem. Yes, the sin-nature is opposed to God. But God does not have to regenerate anything to make it possible for belief. Man BY his sin-nature is opposed to God but because everything a man learns is filtered through that nature, therefor it is distorted and in opposition to truth (because it is distorted) Man being seperated from God (who is Life and Truth) is dead. He can not know Truth or come to understand it by himself and therefor can not partake in Life. We know this from myriads of scripture.

But God when He reveals Truth He BYPASSES the natural-man (the natural mans filter) and sets truth directly into the heart of man (opens the hearts - like with Lydia). Man now has a choice between that which he thinks he knows is truth and that which has been revealed by God as Truth. Man can not know the spiritual things without God revealing them, and man will not come to God of his own. But it was God who came to man, and God who revealed truth. Man must believe it IS the truth, or reject it as a Lie. The fact man can only now believe is not a work of his will because he did not come to God nor did he come to the truth of his own, however at the revelation of truth man can believe or reject.

Why now? Because it is the nature of man through which all information is processed and man via this information will only come believe one way - in willing opposition against God/Truth because it has been tainted/filtered/and strained at the nat.

But when that information filtration system is bypassed and pure truth revealed to the individual, the spirit of man is faced with a option it NEVER HAD BEFORE. This is why scripture states "choose, believe, come unto me..." because there IS a choice (the calling) given unto men. The spirit or intellect of man must either acknowledge the truth or reject it. That is why it is not a work jsut as Romans 4:4-6 states.

Regeneration is not needed for acknowledgment/belief or rejection. But to maintain a continuous present tense belief without fear of wavering there MUST come a regeneration which changes the very nature of man into a Child of God that they will stay IN belief because they are now IN Christ. It was the same principle was with Adam and Eve in the Garden only the reverse. Their nature was dependant upon the information they chose to believe. But they had no choice to be able to fall until Satan entered the garden and offered up 'another' truth/lie.

Anyway... That is my position. Thanks for the interaction and dialog.

 

Hey Allan. If you understand that God initiates any covenant or agreement with mankind first as an overlord, then it is easy to see how He initiates regeneration.

If you understand the depravity of man, it is easy to understand the necessity of the new birth before one can believe.

I believe the prevenient grace argument to have been soundly defeated. Not everyone gets to hear the Gospel. Some may argue "how do you know". "You can not prove that". Well we can not prove many things that we know to be.

It is very easy to understand how He gives grace to the humble. He made them humble and then they have grace. When one is born again, humility should be a very distinguishing attribute of the regenerate.

I love you brother. Have I convinced you yet? :laugh:

 

But you don't know it to be true...that's the dilema. You state it is true based on absolutely nothing. You even admit it cannot be proven to be true. So how is it "known" to be true...because a systematic theolgy NEEDS it to be true? Let Romans 1 and Ecc. 3:11 be your guide. ALL men are created with eternity in their hearts, and ALL men instinctively know about God.

 

Knowledge about God is not enough web. There is no other name under heaven in which we must be saved. (Jesus) God is perfect, we are less than perfect. Without Christ's perfection being imputed to us, we are lost.

Ecc. also says that the earth abideth forever........ does it? Will it not melt away with all the other elements? The point i'm making is that context is important. You also need to consider what literary style is used for the exegesis. Would you build doctrine around wisdom literature?

 

I agree, but faith comes by hearing (understanding), and THAT from the Word of God.

yes, the earth will abide forever. Like our bodies, it will be resurrected. True, it will be purged by fire, but the earth will remain. This will be our permanent home...with Christ ruling.

Depends on the literature. Ecc. 3:11 is very applicable.

 

She did not have faith in Christ all along. She had faith in God according to the truth that she had heard from the Old Testament. As a believer in God and a person of true faith (like Abraham who believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness) the Holy Spirit illuminated her mind and gave her understanding when she heard the message of Christ so that she became a believer in Christ.