The Lord's Discourse

Daniel 9 has been totally fulfilled. Part of the Lord's Olivet Discourse has been fulfilled, part has not.

Read Luke 21:20-24. He tells them when they see this particular sign (Jerusalem compassed with armies) to leave the city and the country and never come back. He then tells them what would happen at that time, namely that those that did not flee would fall by the edge of the sword and be led away captive into all nations. Then He states that Jerusalem would be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Cestius brought his army to Jerusalem, and then just inexplicably left. At that point the Christians in the city and country recalled the words of Jesus and fled. Later, Titus laid seige to the city and estimates of 1.1 million Jews were killed. The remnant that survived were literally carried away captive into all nations. Jerusalem has been since trodden down of the Gentiles.

Later in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus says that of the day and hour of His coming no man would know. Obviously, this a separate event. He likens His coming to a thief in the night. It would be unexpected. Jesus is there prophesying of something that hasn't happened yet - His second coming and the end of the world.

 

The full 7 years did take place.

It's funny that you say you can't split the 7 years, and then you turn around and split up the 70 weeks. You have absolutely no right from scripture to split up the 70 weeks by placing at least 1900 years between weeks. In fact, by doing so you completely destroy the time aspect of that prophecy.

 

How have I destroyed the 70th week? I say it has already been fulfilled.

 

Why do you separate week number 70 from the previous 69 by thousands of years? Why does Jesus give a clear sign of one event but refuses to for the other event if they are one and the same? Why do you violate language by refusing to assign the singular personal pronoun "he" in Daniel 9:27 to the only singular personal noun in that entire context, "Messiah?"

 

You see, this is what truly aggravates me. People believe there are only two views of prophecy in scripture - preterism and futurism. If one says that Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks is fulfilled, they want to throw you into the preterist camp. If you argue that not all of the Olivet Discourse is fulfilled, they want to throw you into the futurist camp. Stop!

There is absolutely nothing in Daniel 9 or anywhere else in scripture that says that particular prophecy has anything to do with the end times. Everything in that prophecy points to it having only to do with the second period of Jewish nationalism, that is from the decree of Cyrus to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. That prophecy is a times prophecy and is the only link between the OT chronology and the ministry of Jesus Christ. It should not be broken up. The practice of separating the 70th week both goes against the language of the text and destroys the timing of the prophecy.

Now, that being said, there are many things in the bible not yet fulfilled. The second coming of Christ has not happened yet. Part of the Olivet Discourse has not happened yet. I'm not a preterist, I'm simply a person who tries to figure out what the bible is saying.

I've yet to see someone handle this problem. In Daniel 9:27 there is a singular personal pronoun, that being he. In the context there is only one singular personal noun that could be matched up with he, that being Messiah. The he of Daniel 9:27 must be Messiah according to language rules. You ask, what about "the prince that shall come?" Well, the text speaks of "the people of the prince that shall come." In that phrase "prince" is a modifier for "people," which is a plural noun. Prince tells us who these people were, they were the people of the prince that shall come. The pronoun cannot be replacing this modifier.

 

I have come to the same conclusion from a plain reading of the text.

The one thing I find certain, imho, is that any theology that has a separate future for a National Israel and the Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ is contrary to Paul's argument in Eph. that, by His work on the cross, Jesus has made peace between the two groups (Jews and Gentiles) and has formed them into one new man that is to be presented to Almighty God by Holy Spirit.

Jesus will not undo His work on the cross. It is finished!

peace to youraying:

 

Preterism is the Future of Eschatology

There is no biblical mention, reason, nor even suggestion that the 70 weeks can be split—this is the simplest of forced, man-made, conventions to create a manufactured outcome.

Yet this is OK (indeed necessary) for the dispensationalist’s view which starting with Darby’s imagination and Margaret McDonald’s vision has been built on creativity, slight of hand reading, and thinking that the Jewish oriented mindset that wrote of the last days of the Old Covenant was really about the last days of Christianity.

I’m just grateful I got to live during the few moments of history when dispensationalism was at its peak and got to be so entertained by it.

As more people get the low-down on how dispensationalism was created they are leaving it in ever larger numbers—just like I did.

Every year that passes without Christ returning makes dispensationalism look more desperate and preterism more credible. It will be a long slow journey, but in an ironic twist on words—preterism is the future of eschatology (I think I’ll put that on a t-shirt). Time is on our side.

“Your understanding of the inspiration of Scripture is utterly astounding!” Mel

Why thank you Mel!

 

Where does Daniel 9 speak of a separation of Israel for future purposes.

Daniel 9 has got to be one of the most misused prophetic passages in all the bible. I still have yet to get one person who believes in a suspended 70th week to address the language problems they have in failing to assign the singular personal pronoun he in Verse 27 to the singular personal noun Messiah.

 

Lastday

RAdam,
You write:

Jesus takes Dan.9:27 out of the historical past by relating its fulfillment to
the great tribulation and His coming for the Jews after the 1260-day
"great tribulation" which He predicted will be "greater than any tribulation in history or the future".

The days which Jesus says will be "shortened" are the 1260 Endtime days
during which the Two Prophets will "demonstrate God's Kingdom Power"
while the total number of Martyrs are killed "who must be killed". The DAY
of Wrath is a single Day during which the Messiah rescues the Jewish Remnant and destroys the armies at Armageddon and on that same
Day gathers from earth every believer to meet Him in the air as He comes.
Mel

 

And, as I've said before, the parallel passage to Matthew 24:15 is Luke 21:20. The latter shows that Jesus was speaking of AD 70 and not some future event at that point in the Olivet Discourse.

 

Lastday

Canadyjd:
You Write:

The finished work on the Cross was for the Body of Christ; Bride of the Lamb!
God is not finished with mankind in proving all in a state of "disobedience"!!
He will overwhelm billions of Abraham's natural descendants with MERCY!!!

First was the testing of His Chosen People under the Law and Sacrifices!
Second is the testing of Gentiles while Jews remain in a state of blindness!!
Third will be the testing of ALL nations by how they treat Jesus' brethren!!!

In the Eternal State, the Lamb's Bride includes both OT and NT Saints!
It's the "Holy Temple in the Lord" tho the New Jerusalem is not a Temple!!
"The Will of God will finally be done on earth as it is being done in Heaven"!!!