1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The lost sheep of Israel

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 25, 2022.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 10:6
    but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Matthew 15:24
    But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

    The widely held view is that Jesus was sent initially to Jews, and subsequently, after His death on the cross, to all mankind. But if He was going to lay down His life as a ransom for all, then He was actually sent to Gentiles as well as Jews.

    So let us consider these verses. First Matthew 10:6 describes where at that time and place Jesus sent His disciples, and thus fits with the idea of spreading the gospel message first to Jews, as the most receptive audience, and then after the body of Christ was built up, to spread the word to all the earth.

    The second verse (Matthew 15:24) tells that Jesus says to a Canaanite women that He was sent "only" to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But He subsequently helps the woman because of her faith. Apparently people of faith are part of the "house of Israel" in God's eyes.

    Does the verse actually say "lost sheep?" The Greek word translated "lost" actually means "destroyed" or "ruined" or "perishing."

    And to what does "house or household" refer? Members of the group in view.

    Which brings us to "of Israel." Here we see that the members of Israel are in view. Under the Old Covenant we know that term is used to refer to believers of God. And in the New Testament, we know that the Israel of God includes Gentiles. (Galatians 6:16)

    So it seems possible the idea is Jesus was sent only to the Israel of God who are perishing.
     
    #1 Van, Jun 25, 2022
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He came to His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name, John 1:11-12

    The Jews first, and then the Gentiles, as Paul tells us MANY times in his Letters!
     
    #2 SavedByGrace, Jun 25, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOST=SPIRITUAL DEAD!
     
    #3 SavedByGrace, Jun 25, 2022
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lost= spiritually dead= all humanity!!
     
    #4 Van, Jun 25, 2022
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes to the Jew first in sequence, but to "everyone who believes, both Jew and Gentile. Either you think God made a mistake and the house of Israel refers only to Jews, or you agree with the biblical view that the Israel of God refers to all chosen believers, Jews and Gentiles.
     
    #5 Van, Jun 25, 2022
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @Van , welcome to Calvinism. :Inlove
     
    #6 Aaron, Jun 25, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What becomes of lost sheep if not found? They probably die, not from old age, but by misfortune.
     
    #7 Van, Jun 25, 2022
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, sometime some small aspect of Calvinism rightly discerns God's word. But that is the exception and not the rule. :)
     
    #8 Van, Jun 25, 2022
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    depends on who is doing the "finding"! :Geek
     
    #9 SavedByGrace, Jun 25, 2022
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What is the purpose of posting Non-sequiturs? The statement said nothing about those found, but addressed the probable misfortune of those not found.
     
    #10 Van, Jun 25, 2022
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    who lost the sheep?
     
    #11 SavedByGrace, Jun 25, 2022
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    where is "Calvinism" in this?
     
    #12 SavedByGrace, Jun 25, 2022
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,595
    Likes Received:
    2,895
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ezekiel 34

    2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, even to the shepherds, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Woe unto the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the sheep?
    3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill the fatlings; but ye feed not the sheep.
    4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought back that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with rigor have ye ruled over them.
    5 And they were scattered, because there was no shepherd; and they became food to all the beasts of the field, and were scattered.
    6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my sheep were scattered upon all the face of the earth; and there was none that did search or seek after them.

    Compare with John 10:

    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep.
    12 He that is a hireling, and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholdeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth, and the wolf snatcheth them, and scattereth them:
    13 he fleeth because he is a hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
    14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me,
    15 even as the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.
     
    #13 kyredneck, Jun 25, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL. Limited Atonement.
     
    #14 Aaron, Jun 25, 2022
  15. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I predict that you and I will begin meeting in a local pub with 90 pound copies of the Institutes tucked under our arms.
     
    #15 Aaron, Jun 25, 2022
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,152
    Likes Received:
    441
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Limited=Calvinism
    Unlimited=God
     
    #16 SavedByGrace, Jun 25, 2022
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,071
    Likes Received:
    1,243
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. The Apostle was recognizing the distinction between the circumcised saved Israel of God and the uncircumcised Gentiles being one in Christ.
     
    #17 37818, Jun 25, 2022
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I predict that you and I and @Van will be meeting in a pub with 90 pound copies of the Institutes tucked under our arms.
     
    #18 Aaron, Jun 25, 2022
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another post to sidetrack discussion, thus revealing motive.
     
    #19 Van, Jun 25, 2022
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No the Apostle was recognizing Gentile believers were part of the Israel of God. Just read Galatians 6:16.
     
    #20 Van, Jun 25, 2022
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...