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The Myth of Tolerance

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Aaron, Dec 9, 2010.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    A tired old chestnut lobbed constantly from the liberal camps when discussing what public policy should be is the meaningless sentiment that we can't expect pagans to act like Christians. It's meaningless because 1) It's ambiguous, 2) It's irrelevant to any argument it's used in, and 3) It's false.

    The fact of the matter is that we can and do expect men to behave morally, and governments are instituted among men to punish those who don't.
     
  2. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    It is kind of like this: what's the difference between a goat and a sheep? A goat will eat anything and a sheep won't. We shouldn't expect the world to act like Christians because they can't.

    A simple coountry preacher.

    Jeff
     
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    What does that have to do with public policy? Can we expect goats to know that murder and theft are wrong? Can we expect them to know what a natural and valid marriage is?
     
  4. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    It really depends on what context your talking about. If a Christian used that argument to say they are in favor of gay marriage I agree with you.

    If they used that argument to point out it might not be worth too much effort worrying about, protesting etc. how say Madonna dressed at a concert or something along those lines, they might have a point.
     
  5. Old Union Brother

    Old Union Brother New Member

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    It just simply means that as much as we would like our public officials to be of high moral character that just might not be true unless they are Christian. A non christian may accept immoral conduct to appease the majority and unfortunately that happens a lot these days.
     
  6. BobinKy

    BobinKy New Member

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    I do not agree that governments were instituted among men to punish those who do not behave morally.

    Instead, I believe authorities are established by God to provide peace and quiet for people to live godly and honest lives.

    I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

    For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. (1 Timothy 2: 1-2; KJB)​

    Now, if we can only give our leaders that authority--and no more.

    ...Bob
     
  7. SRBooe

    SRBooe New Member

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    Our "leaders" don't even know that WE - the people - gave them authority to do the jobs assigned to them. We did not create emperors or kings, but they seem to have forgotten that. They are supposed to stand public scrutiny,but I find that not even the public knows what authority our officials have.

    In America, authority comes from the people.
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well, 1 Peter 2:14.
     
  9. BobinKy

    BobinKy New Member

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    Nice passage. However, in my humble opinion, I think v. 14 should be read in context with vv. 13-25.

    13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

    14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

    15For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

    16As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

    17Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

    18Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.

    19For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

    20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

    21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

    22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

    23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

    24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. (1 Peter 2:13-25; KJB)​

    Please let me know what you think.

    ...Bob
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member

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    In my thinking, the immediate context is vs 11-15.

    11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

    12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

    13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

    14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

    15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

    It was a common thought among new converts in the early church that gentile and pagan civil governors had no more authority over them since they were now in the Kingdom of Heaven. The early church had their kook fringes just as we do today. Many were rebellious in the name of Christ.

    In his description of well-doing, Peter set forth the proper roll of civil government. It is a divine institution sent by God for the punishment of evildoers, and the praise of them that do well.
     
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member

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    After this last election they are probably suspecting this premise.

    This is not a serfdom.

    In 2012 (assuming the same arrogant "business as usual" attitude and if we survive), their suspicions will turn to reality.

    "Shape up or ship out" should become the voting citizenry's new mantra.

    HankD
     
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