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The New NIV Compared With The TNIV And ESV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Nov 10, 2010.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    You're being redundant.

    Based on your prior statements : do you think the NKJV and NASB are more conservative than the HCSB?
     
    #81 Rippon, Apr 12, 2015
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The ESV and HCSB have more inclusive language than the 1984 NIV. So, in your opinion have they crossed the line? Have they become liberal?
     
    #82 Rippon, Apr 12, 2015
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not a question of them being liberal or conservative, as both of them were translated by solidly Evangelical scholars, but more along the lines of them being less formal and literal....

    All 3 of them are good, solid bible versions....
     
    #83 Yeshua1, Apr 13, 2015
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not more conservative, but would say more formal and literal, and got it much better in regards to how much inclusive language to bring over into the English translation...
     
    #84 Yeshua1, Apr 13, 2015
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    So in your estimation the amount of inclusive language used in the 1984 NIV used just the right amount. The ESV and HCSB have exceeded that proper measure.

    The NKJV and NASB use even less inclusive language than the 1984 NIV. You are not clear. Is the 1984 NIV your gold standard with repect to the usage of inclusive language, or the NKJV or NASB?

    Can you think of any places in the New Testament where the 1984 NIV should have used more inclusive language --or do you just enjoy making charges without doing any homework? When you make blanket statements without showing any evidence to support your claims --it makes you look kind of weak.
     
    #85 Rippon, Apr 13, 2015
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would say that both the Nasb and the NKJV used the correct amount of inclusive renderings, as that would be sue to their translation philosophy, and that if one wanted to go the mediating translation route, the 1984 Nov had the right balance...
     
    #86 Yeshua1, Apr 14, 2015
  7. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The amount of inclusive language in a bible version has little to do with the issue of the old models of literal, mediating and dynamic.

    So you are backtracking. Earlier the 1984 NIV was your line in the sand, now the NKJV and NASB. Youi do waffle.

    Have you actually done any personal research on this whole subject whatsoever? I had asked you if there are any places in the 1984 NIV where more inclusive language is needed. Answer the question if you have actually thought the question out. If you have done no homework on the matter than just admit it.
     
    #87 Rippon, Apr 14, 2015
  8. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Rippon,

    Have you noticed any inclusive language in the NIV2011 or NLT that you feel shouldn't be there?
    I have a NLT and I read to my son from NIV2011. But I haven't studied the inclusive renderings. Haven't seen much either.
     
    #88 McCree79, Apr 16, 2015
  9. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Studying last week, I came across Judges 5:27.

    Unacceptable in both the NIV and NLT! - they removed the s*xist innuendo.

    Rob
     
    #89 Deacon, Apr 17, 2015
  10. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. I will check that out.
     
    #90 McCree79, Apr 17, 2015
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Rob, are you joking? It's hard to tell if you are speaking tongue-in-cheek.

    If, by any chance you are serious, is there that much of difference between using at and between in order to keep the innuendo?
     
    #91 Rippon, Apr 21, 2015
  12. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I was generally content with the usage of inclusive language in the TNIV; with just a few exceptions. The 2011 took a few steps backward to appease the ESV crowd.

    I will have to report back to you at a future date to list any passages where the current NIV has used inclusive language inappropriately.

    The NLTse uses about 22-25% more inclusive language than the NIV. I haven't checked that out either. But I don't know if I want to research that.

    Both are wonderful Bible translations that we are fortunate to have.
     
    #92 Rippon, Apr 21, 2015
  13. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    I looked at it. I think he may have been joking. Not sure though.
     
    #93 McCree79, Apr 21, 2015
  14. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks.

    Don't do any special research for me. I was just wondering if you noticed anything. I have both....if I want to know bad enough, I can look myself :).
     
    #94 McCree79, Apr 21, 2015
  15. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    LOL, no, I'm not kidding... I usually use winky's make my dry humor more noticeable.

    I taught this passage last week in Sunday Adult Bible study. I had to nuance it a bit more than I do here.

    Even the old KJV footnotes that the word in Hebrew there should be "between".
    The passage doesn't say it directly but many of the Hebrew words used in the passage strongly imply that Sisera assaulted Jael, instigating her "pounding" him with a "peg" and smashing his head "between her legs".
    What was done to her, she returned back to him.

    The biblical innuendo is totally missing in the NIV.

    Everett Fox translates the passage:

    Water he asked for, milk she gave,
    in a bowl for the valiant, she brought near cream.
    Her hand to the peg she stretched out,
    her right-hand to the workman's pounder.
    She pounded Sisera, smashed his head,
    she shattered and passed it through his temple.
    Between her legs he bent down, he fell, he lay,
    between her legs he bend down, he fell,
    where he bent down, there he fell, ravaged!
    Judges 5:25-27

    Those were terrible days...
    "In those days, there was no king in Israel;
    each one would do what was right in his eyes." [21:25]

    Rob
     
    #95 Deacon, Apr 21, 2015
  16. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Y1, I'm still waiting for a response to the above. Surely since you have been so insistent that the current edition of the NIV is inferior to that of the 1984 --you must have some objective sense about you. To be fair and truthful you have to concede that there are certainly some places in the 84 model that are lacking compared with the 2011 NIV.

    Is it too much to ask for you to acknowledge that the 2011 edition does a better job than its older sibling in some passages. Or do you just want to rely on just condemning it without any substance to make your case?
     
    #96 Rippon, Apr 22, 2015
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would saya that how they handles the word Sarx/flesh was better done in the edition of the Niv, but they also went overboard in how many inclusive renderings allowed into the revision, especially as regarding Son of man and in areas regarding women and leadership!
     
    #97 Yeshua1, Apr 24, 2015
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I asked the above on April 14th. You have not given an answer.

    So, from your silence on the matter it indicates that you really have no clue. You would rather just continue your old ways and offer sniper fire.
     
    #98 Rippon, Apr 24, 2015
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