Featured The New Perspective on Paul

So what do you think it means to "believeth on him that justifieth?". Vain belief?

 

The issue is what is accomplished by our belief in Christ. Are we justified by our belief? Or did the One who justifies actually cause the justification? So our faith provides our access to God's grace, but God's grace justifies the unjust.

 

Romans 4:5, ". . . on him that justifieth . . . ." It is the one who justifies who actually justifies. It is explicitly what the text says.

 

So what you did not say, or left unsaid, is that our belief does not justify, but only provides our access to God's grace. If that is what you believe, you are on the right track.

 

While our faith is required by God it doesn't cause anything. Hebrews 11:6.

 

Hebrews 11:6 (NASB)
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for the one who comes to God must believe that He exists, and that He proves to be One who rewards those who seek Him.

Thus our faith provides our access to God's grace. This should not be disputed. Our faith provides, causes, our access to God's grace. If you deny this, you are on the wrong track.

 

So you, like some Calvinists, claim faith is a work. Wow.

 

You claim that faith does not provide or causes our access to God's grace denies scripture WOW.

Some people deny Romans 5:1-2:
Rom 5:1-2
Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of God's glory.

 

We disagree. A work causes something. Faith is not regarded as a work per Romans 4:5, ". . . to him that worketh not, but believeth . . . ."

 

Faith is according to grace. Romans 4:16. Romans 5:1-2 clearly teaches our faith provides our access to God's grace. Stop your denial of the obvious.

 

God does the work of grace, not the faith, which is the required reason God saves. Faith does not cause anything to be true. But truth is the reason for faith. John 17:17, Romans 10:17.

 

Agreed. The Commandment is exceeding broad, Psalms 119:96. There is no good that can be done that is not in obedience to the Commandments, and there is no sin, not even the sins of the heart, that is not revealed by the Law. Anger without cause is murder, sexual lust is adultery, covetousness is idolatry, adultery, murder, and theft.

 

What's the difference between being justified by faith, and the 'future' justification? It sounds like you are saying there are two justifications.

We are justified. We are at peace with God. Our justification will be made manifest in the Final Judgment.

 

And:

God’s “grace” (unmerited favor) is often defined in two ways by Paul.

First is the grace which leads to salvation. That is God’s unmerited favor in His choice to bring someone to salvation.

Second is “enabling grace”, which is God’s inner provision, by Holy Spirit, that allows believers to stand firm in the midst of persecution. Paul refers to enabling grace more often than the grace which brings salvation.

Your reference to Romans 5:1-2 and the “…access by faith into this grace in which we stand” is a reference to enabling grace given to the believer after salvation.

peace to you

 

Why not address the subject? Why change the subject? Faith provides our access to God's grace. Full Stop

 

Your assertions have no biblical basis. John 3:16 Everyone believing refers to pre-salvation faith providing access to salvation.

 

When Paul ask God to remove his “thorn in the flesh” God told him “My grace is sufficient for you”. Was God speaking of Paul getting saved? Or was God telling him His grace, through power of indwelling Holy Spirit was sufficient to enable him to endure?

Paul often speaks of enabling grace given to believers… the grace in which we stand.

Thanks for the conversation.

peace to you

 

The subiect was not changed. We disagree on faith not being a work. We do agree faith is necessary.

 

Oh, I see. Justified in the sense of proven vs Justified in the sense of being made just.

Okay I understand now. And am dismayed I have no objection thus far.