The next temple.

His branch and her branch are the SAME greek word, NOWHERE in the context of those 2 passages does it refer the destruction and restoration of Israel that is EISGESIS you are doing.

Just because different words are used in parallel passages doesn't make one a whole new cannon.

Isn't Jesus Christ Lord? 1 Cor 1:8 says the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ. Is this a whole new Day of judgment since it has both Lord and Jesus Christ?

All of these words are different so that will give us 10 different days of judgment right? Day of Jesus Christ, his day, day of God, great day, day of wrath, the day, that day, day of redemption, and day of visitation.

Before you lecture me on understanding bible prophecy you need study hermeneutics and jewish apocalyptic literature first. </font>[/QUOTE]God is married to Israel, that makes Israel "HER", and "HER" will be re-established as a nation before the rapture/trib begins. (valley of bones.Eze 37)

And if "HER GENERATION" is to be the last generation, she can only be re-established within a generation of the end of the six days God said he would let the world stand, 1948 is well within that timeframe, And Jesus promised to be "Resurrected", back on earth, early in the morning of the third day, 7th day. (MK) (day =1000 years),

All three of these prophecies are focused on "THIS GENERATION" of "HER BRANCH", and it's the present time frame.


The day of Christ, Jesus is the "BRIDEGROOM", coming only for his BRIDE, the church, (rapture)

The Day of the Lord, Jesus comes as "LORD OF LORDS" over the world,

The Day of God, Jesus, as God sits on the GWT.

The Revelations of Jesus is from "Bridegroom to lord of lords to King of Kings.

You won't understand the scripture until you understand the schedule, every event has a time/place/reason for it's occurrance.

Neither hermeneutics or jewish apocalyptic literature will reveal the scriptures, that only done through/by the "SPIRIT".

 

This is ARROGANCE and PRIDE to think such a thing, there are rules to interpret the bible. If the Holy Spirit was the only factor in the exegesis we would all have the SAME conclusion. You sound like all the Word of Faith TV preaches who don't have a clue how too interpret the bible.

 

2 Tim 2:15 Study to show yourself approved. A worker rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

There is an intellectual and methodical way to understand Scripture. Anyone can understand what it teaches, but the role of the Holy Spirit is a limited one in interpretation.

1 Cor 2:14 "the man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them.

Unbelievers might understand the bible, but do not accept them as truth. The Holy Spirit impresses the truth of the Scriptures only. It is only with the Spirit can we receive and apply the Word not receive SPECIAL interpretive skills.

[ April 17, 2006, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Jo$h ]

 

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce;

When did he re-marry Israel?

 

Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Without the spirit, no one understand the scripture, much less believe them.

Your "intellectual and methodical" system is not worth a "plug nickle" without the spirit to teach, and in a full time, not limited, position.

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. (Spirit)

1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing (Holy Ghost) which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce;

When did he re-marry Israel? </font>[/QUOTE]During the trib.

Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Re 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel) which brought forth the man child. (Jesus)

Joh 2:1 And the third day (7th, MK) there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus (persecuted woman) was there:

The lamb's marriage supper takes place in heaven during the trib when God is "binding up the breach" between Him and Israel, their re-marriage takes place during the MK, or "in Cana/Galilee".

 

Without the Spirit noone can apply Scripture or believe it, anyone can read and understand Jesus rose from the dead, only the Spirit helps us believe it.

Albert Barnes

And ye know all things—That is, all things which it is essential that you should know on the subject of religion. See the John 16:13 note; 1 Cor. 2:15 note. The meaning cannot be that they knew all things pertaining to history, to science, to literature, and to the arts; but that, under the influences of the Holy Spirit, they had been made so thoroughly acquainted with the truths and duties of the Christian religion, that they might be regarded as safe from the danger or fatal error. The same may be said of all true Christians now, that they are so taught by the Spirit of God, that they have a practical acquaintance with what religion is, and with what it requires, and are secure from falling into fatal error. In regard to the general meaning of this verse, then, it may he observed:

I. That it does not mean any one of the following things:

(1) That Christians are literally instructed by the Holy Spirit in all things, or that they literally understand all subjects. The teaching, whatever it may be, refers only to religion.

(2) IT IS NOT MEANT THAT ANY NEW FACULTIES OF MIND ARE CONFERRED ON THEM, OR ANY INCREASED INTELLECTUAL ENDOWMENTS, BY THEIR RELIGION. IT IS NOT A FACT THAT CHRISTIANS, AS SUCH, ARE SUPERIOR IN MENTAL ENDOWMENTS TTHERS; NOR THAT BY THEIR RELIGION THEY HAVE ANY MENTAL TRAITS WHICH THEY HAD NOT BEFORE THEIR CONVERSION. PAUL, PETER, AND JOHN HAD ESSENTIALLY THE SAME MENTAL CHARACTERISTICS AFTER THEIR CONVERSION WHICH THEY HAD BEFORE; AND THE SAME IS TRUE OF ALL CHRISTIANS.

(3) IT IS NOT MEANT THAT ANY NEW TRUTH IS REVEALED TO THE MIND BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. ALL THE TRUTH THAT IS BROUGHT BEFORE THE MIND OF THE CHRISTIAN IS TO BE FOUND IN THE WORD OF GOD, AND “REVELATION,” AS SUCH, WAS COMPLETED WHEN THE BIBLE WAS FINISHED.

(4) IT IS NOT MEANT THAT ANYTHING IS PERCEIVED BY CHRISTIANS WHICH THEY HAD NOT THE NATURAL FACULTY FOR PERCEIVING BEFORE THEIR CONVERSION, OR WHICH OTHER PEOPLE HAVE NOT ALSO THE NATURAL FACULTY FOR PERCEIVING. THE DIFFICULTY WITH PEOPLE IS NOT A DEFECT OF NATURAL FACULTIES, IT IS IN THE BLINDNESS OF THE HEART.

II. The statement here made by John “does” imply, it is supposed, the following things:

(1) That the minds of Christians are so enlightened that they have a new perception of the truth. They see it in a light in which they did not before. They see it as truth. They see its beauty, its force, its adapted less to their condition and wants. They understand the subject of religion better than they once did, and better than others do. What was once dark appears now plain; what once had no beauty to their minds now appears beautiful; what was once repellant is now attractive.

(2) THEY SEE THIS to be true; that is, they see it in such a light that they cannot doubt that it is true. They have such views of the doctrines of religion, that they have no doubt that they are true, and are willing on the belief of their truth to lay down their lives, and stake their eternal interests.

(3) THEIR KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH IS ENLARGED. THEY BECOME ACQUAINTED WITH more truths than they would have known if they had not been under the teaching of the Holy Spirit. Their range of thought is greater; their vision more extended, as well as more clear.

Adam Clarke

But the anointing which ye have received—That ointment, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, mentioned 1 John 2:20 (note).

Ye need not that any man teach you—The Gnostics, who pretended to the highest illumination, could bring no proof that they were divinely taught, nor had they any thing in their teaching worthy the acceptance of the meanest Christian; therefore they had no need of that, nor of any other teaching but that which the same anointing teacheth, the same Spirit from whom they had already received the light of the glory of God, in the face of Jesus Christ. Whatever that taught, they needed; and whatever those taught whose teaching was according to this Spirit, they needed. St. John does not say that those who had once received the teaching of the Divine Spirit had no farther need of the ministry of the Gospel; no, but he says they had no need of such teaching as their false teachers proposed to them; nor of any other teaching that was different from that anointing, i.e. the teaching of the Spirit of God. No man, howsoever holy, wise, or pure, can ever be in such a state as to have no need of the Gospel ministry: they who think so give the highest proof that they have never yet learned of Christ or his Spirit.

[ April 18, 2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Jo$h ]

 

Wow, 9 pages. When did it get off topic? Page 3? 4?

I have no idea what, when or where the next temple will be. I don't buy the human objections like "You think the Muslims would allow that?!?" God can make anything happen.

But I digress. In the great tradition of staying off topic, I'll ask, "Wasn't the last one Shirley, and doesn't that mean it was located on the good ship lollipop?"

 

Only if it is Scriptural

 

Where in the context of those passages is Paul talking about biblical interpretation?

 

This is ARROGANCE and PRIDE to think such a thing, there are rules to interpret the bible. If the Holy Spirit was the only factor in the exegesis we would all have the SAME conclusion. You sound like all the Word of Faith TV preaches who don't have a clue how too interpret the bible. </font>[/QUOTE]"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual
things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:12-14

"But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." 1 John 2:20

 

Where in the context of those passages is Paul talking about biblical interpretation? </font>[/QUOTE]In my poll at:


There have been about 450 poll responses
and only 3 choose:
inerrant as applied by _____ (post person or group)

It was an intellegence test. Of course,
nobody being perfect, there is no one nor
no group that applies the Bible Inerrantly
to their lives. However, and obviously,
some get closer than others. Those we should
be like.

It is this application of the Bible to
our lives which we are calling here
"interpretation". Each of these scriptures
has an important point from God to make
about how we incorporate the inerrant
Written Word of God (The Bible) in our
lives.

 

Only if it is Scriptural </font>[/QUOTE]According to the scriptures, at, very near the church rapture another temple will be build which will also be destroyed during the trib, after which another temple will be build during the MK.

After the six day war Moses Dyan (spell??) gave an angry response to the question,

"now that Israel has capture Jerusalem, will the temple be rebuild"??....said:

The temple is already build

Realizing he had let the "cat out of the bag", turned and walked away.


To understand his answer, you have to know that "iron tools" can't be used on site, so the temple is "prefab" off site and assembled on site.

Once it's construction begins, it will go up in record time, there won't be a shortage of laborers, most likely every Jew in the world will want a hand in it's construction.

De 27:5 And there shalt thou build an altar unto the LORD thy God, an altar of stones: thou shalt not lift up any iron tool upon them.

1Ki 6:2 And the house which king Solomon built for the LORD,

1Ki 6:7 And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither: so that there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building.

 

This is ARROGANCE and PRIDE to think such a thing, there are rules to interpret the bible. If the Holy Spirit was the only factor in the exegesis we would all have the SAME conclusion. You sound like all the Word of Faith TV preaches who don't have a clue how too interpret the bible. </font>[/QUOTE]

Then quite obviously "SOMEBODY" isn't using the spirit.

Just "ONE", use the spirit.

 

Jo$h: //If the Holy Spirit was the only factor
in the exegesis we would all have the SAME conclusion.//

I respectfully but firmy DISAGREE.
This puts a limit on an infinite God.
God could have different Holy Spirit Filled messages
for different people.

 

First of all this verse has NOTHING to do with biblical interpretation. Secondly, I did not say the Spirit wasn't necessary in understanding God's word, however it is not the ONLY application used in hermeneutics it is the FINAL application, which is we understand God's Word to be true, it is spiritual in nature and we look towards heavenly things, we love God with all our heart, mind, and soul, a natural man cannot do that.

What natural man looks to is a fleshly, materialistic kingdom, which is exactly what the jews, then and now look for and such is the context of the verse. Christians who understand hermenuetics know that the kingdom cannot be seen and is joy, peace, righteousness in the Holy Spirit.

 

According to the Scriptures Paul told the Thessalonians the man of lawlessness will take his seat in the holy Temple of God, yet the 2nd temple was still standing when he told them this, how did they know Paul was talking about a yet unbuilt temple 2000 years from now?

I know let me guess the Holy Spirit right?

According to Scripture (Jer 50:4-5) Israel must be in a state of repentence to be regathered, were they in a state of repentence in 1948?

According to Scripture John was told to measure the Temple (Rev 11) how could he have done that if the Temple was destroyed? Was he transported in the future and measured the 3rd, 4th, or 5th Temple or however many temples you think there will be?

 

Then you should use a different spirit perhaps you could find it in a hermenutics book.

 

-------------------------------
"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual
things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:12-14
-------------------------------

Jo$h: //First of all this verse has NOTHING to do with biblical interpretation.//

I respectfully disagree. This verse is all about
Biblical interpretation. How do you define "Biblical"
and "interpretation" that makes your statement true?

Jo$h: //According to the Scriptures Paul told the Thessalonians the man of lawlessness will take his seat in the holy Temple of God, yet the 2nd temple was still standing when he told them this, how did they know Paul was talking about a yet unbuilt temple 2000 years from now? //

They did NOT need to know what Paul was telling about
for Paul's prophecy to be true.

Jo$h: //According to Scripture John was told to measure the Temple (Rev 11) how could he have done that if the Temple was destroyed? //

The meaning of the prophecy to 'measure the Temple' is
to do all that is necessary for the planning needed
to build a Temple.
It works better when there is no temple there so there
is a need to build a temple.

 

Ed this verse has nothing to do with interpretation dechomai the word for receive means "to accept some requested offering willingly and with pleasure, So the statement "The natural man does not receive (dechomai) the things of God," is apart from the HS, a person does not accept what the Bible teaches with pleasure, willingness, and eagerness. In other words the natural man does not WELCOME the things of the Spirit of God.

Furthermore, "spiritual things are foolishness to natural man," does not mean Scripture in unintelligible. After hearing Paul's defense in Acts 26:4-23 Festus responds in verse 24, "Paul are you mad," it was his response to what was said not that he did not understand it. Because the Bible's view of reality clashes with the way people apart from the HS want to see things, it's message will therefore be foolishness to them, not unintelligible.

What did they need to know then? Why would Paul tell THEM personally verse 6 "Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?" if the prophecy was to not come true in 2000 years? Why was the mystery already at work in Paul's time? Why would he warn THEM personally about the lawless one's coming if it was to be in 2000 years?

I thought you dispies interpreted the bible literally? Would not "measure the temple" mean exactly what it says? Or did the Holy Spirit tell you that? If there is a need to build a temple why did God destroy the 2nd temple then? If there is going to be another temple why does scripture say God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands anymore (Acts 7:48, 17:24)

[ April 22, 2006, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: Jo$h ]