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The Other Side - The Enemy?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by idonthavetimeforthis, Oct 17, 2011.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I stay out of this fight on purpose. I won't even tell you where I stand. I do know this, the quote above could have come from someone on either side of the debate. The only thing that gives it away is the term 'man centredness.'

    I contend that the big issue is mischaracterisation on both sides. These are brothers in Christ, they don't elevate man above God on one side or turn man into a mindless robot on the other. This fight has been going on for centuries and God is not glorified when either side turns those who disagree with them into an enemy.
     
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Brother, you may, or may not mean this, but do you realize that you are alluding to us who hold to freewill as the enemy??


    Look, FW is a systematic theology, as well can be said for Calvinism/DoG. We, as CHRISTians, are not the enemy, but satan is.



    Here is the definition of "systematic theology" according to wikipedia:

    In the context of Christianity, systematic theology is a discipline of Christian theology that attempts to formulate an orderly, rational, and coherent account of the Christian faith and beliefs. It is also called Dogmatics.

    Systematic theology draws on the foundational sacred texts of Christianity, while simultaneously investigating the development of Christian doctrine over the course of history, particularly through philosophy, science and ethics. Inherent to a system of theological thought is that a method is developed, one which can be applied both broadly and particularly.


    So, people like Calvin and Arminius, are people who "systematized" their ideas(theologies) into a "system" of beliefs that some agree with, while other do not.


    So, DoG or FW neither fit the bill as the enemy, but rather, satan.

    Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.



    1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:



    So Brother Luke, scriptures plainly proclaim Lucifer, Satan, the great red dragon, the false prophet, Beelzebub(sp?), the legion of demons that Jesus told to go into the swine, etc are the enemy.....and not those of us who hold to FW.
     
  3. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Brother Roger,


    What it all boils down to is this, in the eyes of some, if you do not hold Calvinism/DoG dear to your heart, you are a blithering idiot.
     
  4. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that any version available is acceptable? Or that some version or versions hold to the truth more than others? Which version would you recommend?
     
  5. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Brothers and Sisters,

    Please allow me to settle down, and explain in a better way, what I was trying to say. In anything we go at, there is a "us" and "them". "Us" is referring to I and my teammates. "Them" constitutes the opposing side, the enemy, if you will. Whether we hold to DoG or FW, if we have been down to the Sovereign Hand of Mercy, and been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, we are on the same team, making us the "us", and Satan and those who oppose CHRISTianity, the "thems".


    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
  6. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    No Willis, I am not. If you would read more thoroughly you would see this too.

    The enemy is ARROGANCE, FOOLISHNESS, IRREVERENCE, MAN CENTEREDNESS, etc...

    That ought to be condemned with great vehemence- by you and all Christians.

    I do contend that these means are the means whereby you interpret some things in Scripture.

    But the abstracts are the enemies. The ideas are the enemies. The arrogance is the enemy. Not the people who are bound by them.

    But this wickedness ought to be condemned wherever it is found. And I think it abounds in the ranks of many movements.

    If you would read more thoroughly you would have saved yourself and us some time.

    I could not have been more clear from the start that the enemy is imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.
     
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I think I was clear in what I was saying.

    Versions are not themselves truth. They communicate truth.

    Translations are not truth- they are means whereby truth is communicated.

    The Word of God is not a translation and the translation is not the Word of God.

    I prefer the King James, believe it or not. But I like the NASB, the NKJV, the ESV, etc...

    But anyone who says that a version is itself the Word of God has automatically discredited himself from speaking with any objectivity. He has immediately indicated that he does not pursue truth with humility and reverence and wisdom, etc...
     
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    For Willis...
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Come on now Luke. You are getting too cantankerous at your young age. You are known now for making extreme statements and being rather harsh with those who don't stick to your particular shibboleth of the moment. You need to moderate yourself.

    Translations are are expressions of the Word of God --imperfectly granted.But still, anyone has the right to say they have the Word of God as communicated through the pages of their translations.

    I think the more translations to compare with is better than sticking to one exclusively. Yet you say,incredibly, that someone like myself is not pursuing truth with humility and reverence? Just because I call the translations I use the Word of God? And I am not saying that others can't hold up other versions in English and foreign tongues and do the same.

    None of us are saying that our translations are perfect and singularly the Word of God like the autographs are.
     
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Taking a look in, I am sorry that I've read idonthavetimeforthis' OP. I'll remind myself not to do so in the future.

    :thumbs:
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    No one has said otherwise. Versions are not themselves the Word of God. That is what I said. That is quite unambiguous.

    What the KJVO crowd does is say that the KJV IS the Word of God. This is not so. Good translations communicate the Word of God. The better the translation the better it communicates the Word of God.

    I don't have a problem with someone holding a KJV bible in their hand and saying, "This is the Word of God," so long as they understand that it is not the ACTUAL word of God but that they mean it contains and communicates the Word of God.

    But when the KJV only crowd says that their version is the very Word of God as opposed to other good versions, this is the result of ignorance and arrogance in the pursuit of doctrine that ought to be condemned.
     
  12. idonthavetimeforthis

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    Should I take this as an insult? All I did was ask a question - no hidden agenda. What if I said I would never read posts that you start? How would you take it? Am I the enemy - lol?
     
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