The Paradox

I truly do not believe that person was ever truly saved. Salvation is not based on us or what we can do. There are many times in the NT where it seems that people can know if they are saved. Even third parties affirmed that others were saved. If we have to constantly fear at losing our salvation then Christianity becomes like all other religions on the planet, nothing special about it because it becomes man-centered. But it is not. It is God-centered. And because of His promises we can have assurance. Not because of us, because of Him. Someone who is truly saved will fall and stumble. But they do not lose their salvation because the One who gave them the promises is faithful. However, if someone totally renounces their faith totally, then I can't help to question if they were ever saved in the first place. God is the originator and perfector of our salvation. It is His work to His glory. That no man can thwart. Once grace is received no man can drive it away. If it could be, it would cease to be grace. However, it is absolutely, positively God's unmerited favor.

Again, who is salvation more for? If it is man, then of course he can lose it. If it is God, then a man cannot lose it. I vote for the latter.

Praise God for His Abundant Grace!
Neal

 

Neal,

God doesn't NEED our help he WANTS it because he is a FATHER not a MASTER, if it is only God then God is a dictator who forces his will upon me. This isn't my God, my God is my father who always loves me but he can't force me to do anything. If I don't have a single word in the matter then wake me up for the court summon on Judgement day.

Grace is not of works in the legalistic sense, living faithfully and with love is not that. Grace is built on the personal relationship between God and his children, it isn't a relationship if I have no say in it, rather it is a master-slave relationship as oppossed to a father-son one. God looks with favor on those who are loving and faithful and gives them grace as a father rewards his children.

If you want to talk about the power of man, I don't think man has the power to live like a Christian and inspire others leading them to salvation for years and then reject Christ as some have attestted yet never had a drop of saving grace. In other words, how does one produce the fruit of salvation without having the source to produce it?

 

Adam, it is apparent what side you come down on now and I don't think you need to say you are wavering anymore. My heart breaks for those who feel that they have the power to walk away from a relaltionship with God. Neal has said things very well. I see ,you, Adam, have not responded to any of my points. Are they that poorly said? or are they just too good? Read my posts on the OSAS thread as well. I know you deep down want to believe you cannot lose your salvation but you have taken the interpretation of others and decided the scales tip the other way. Maybe we should look at a verse at a time and see what the best explanation for the verse is. Give us one verse you see as a "proof" that salvation can be lost. Thanks

In Christ,
Brian

 

Why does Scripture tell us to persevere to the end?

According to OSAS, if you are saved you will persevere to the end because you are saved. No need to tell a saved person to persevere - they just will.

If you are not saved, but merely think that you are, what good is it to persevere? You're not saved anyway.

Ron

 

JS,

I absolutely agree. No argument here.

Please notice, I did not say "only" for God. It is primarily for God.

For Your Name's Sake, O Lord, Pardon My Guilt, For it is Great! Psalm 25:11, ESV
Neal

 

I agree.

I agree. True believers will show fruit and not try to manipulate grace.

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Romans 6:1-2, ESV

I agree.

If NNE can separate us, how can we? We are SOMEONE.

I do doubt their salvation and have no worries of myself. It is not the major problem for me that you seem to have. You are focusing on what they "did" and what we "do" to determine salvation. You are looking at works. Does true faith come without good works? No. Eph. 2:10. Can works come without true faith? Absolutely. That is why we are saved by grace through faith.

Another thing is that some who are "working for Satan" could possibly be saved. I haven't really studied it in depth, but I find I Corinthians 5:5 and I Timothy 1:20 very interesting.

God Bless You, Adam!
Neal

 

Hogwash. Pure and simple. Bigoted, anti-Bible blasphemy. If you can prove against eternal security, you would have done it by now.

 

Let's break it down, Curtis.

Do you agree that once you are saved, that no matter what you do in the future, you will remain saved? Including the explicit rejection of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord?

A simple yes or no will do.

Can any person know with absolute certainty, that they will never do such at any time between the present and their death?

Again a simple yes or no will do.

Can anyone know with absolute certainty that they are among the elect?

Again, Yes or no?

 

May the Lord give you strength during this hectic (but very worth it) time! I was in your shoes almost exactly two years ago! Hang in there!

God Bless and Keep You Adam,
Neal

 

With all due respect, you can't "prove" that there is a God.

In Christ,
Neal

 

Curtis, why have me search through countless threads looking for some post of yours which might give me an indirect answer when you can very easily answer with a simple yes or no?

Again...

Do you agree that once you are saved, that no matter what you do in the future, you will remain saved? Including the explicit rejection of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord?

Can any person know with absolute certainty, that they will never do such at any time between the present and their death?

Can anyone know with absolute certainty that they are among the elect?

Ron

 

Was Peter saved after he denied Christ ?

 

tryingtounderstand,
If you are truely saved,( I say it that way because some people think they are and are not) no matter what you do you can not lose your salvation. The Lord keeps your salvation, not you. "And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and WILL preserve me unto His heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." 2Tim.4:18. Salvation is about what a person believes, not what they do. The only thing you can do is believe(Jn.6:28,29). Eternal life means eternal life. An inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you(1Pet.1:4). Even if we "fall" into unbelief, the Lord is faithful: He cannot deny Himself(2Tim.2:13). The "born again Christian is tied to the mercy seat(Heb. 6:17-19).