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The Passion of Jesus From A Medical Point of View

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by DeafChristian, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Malky asked: So my questions again, - is this movie Biblically accurate, neither adding to or deleting from God's Precious, Perfect, and Holy Word? Is all glory given to God alone? Does the movie exemplify the Perfect Sacrifice and Resurrection of the Son of God?

    Nope, it is not. BUT it's a MOVIE. Only the Bible can do that!

    Again... it's a MOVIE! What part of that can people not understand? Ever go to a Cantata at church or a Christmas play? Ever go to a Passion Play? Has your church ever allowed the children to put on a play or a puppet show to be done? Same principal! Hymns have many doctrinal errors! Sunday School material has man's opinions. Tracts, devotionals, and yes, even message boards all have error!

    A word for word 'rendition' of scripture (as in a movie), if not done with Holy Hands and perfect hearts is imperfect, is it not?

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;

    1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

    If this movie can reach those in other lands who have before had NO interest or no knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord, who are we to say God cannot use this movie and the talent GOD HIMSELF gave Mel Gibson?

    Matthew 25:15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, 'Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.' 21 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.' 23 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.' 24 Then he who had received the one talent came and said, 'Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.' 26 But his lord answered and said to him, 'You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
     
  2. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    Diane wrote:
    Nope, it is not. BUT it's a MOVIE. Only the Bible can do that!


    Congratulations, Diane [​IMG] you have actually crossed back over the line in the sand - three cheers for ya!!! ;) :D [​IMG]

    If the Word of God can only be accurate - that is ALLLLLLL we need to proclam the gospel - by George, I think she got it!!! - right on - HALLELUJAH!!!!! :D :D :D

    Shalom, MalkyEL
     
  3. At His Feet

    At His Feet New Member

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    Let me ask you this - Mel Gibson has said that the movie was led and motivated by the Holy Spirit.

    Mel Gibson may have said that but there is no way that is possible. Mel Gibson stated himself that no one is saved outside of the RCC. By this statement, he was saying that the sacrifice on Calvary and the blood of Christ was not enough to cleanse from all sin calling the scripture a lie.

    i don't know about your Bible but mine says there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved.
    my friends that is not the name of a church it is the name of perfect, sinless, spotless, lamb of God, Jesus Christ.

    this is dishonoring to the Lord for us to esteem something that has no origin with His Holy Spirit. do we esteem the Word of God as much as we have gloried in this film? i think not. it really concerns me when i see christians that say this film is of God because i know them without a doubt that they do not know their Bibles. where is the believers decernment?
     
  4. At His Feet

    At His Feet New Member

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    Mel Gibson may have said that but there is no way that is possible. Mel Gibson stated himself that no one is saved outside of the RCC. By this statement, he was saying that the sacrifice on Calvary and the blood of Christ was not enough to cleanse from all sin calling the scripture a lie.

    i don't know about your Bible but mine says there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved.
    my friends that is not the name of a church it is the name of perfect, sinless, spotless, lamb of God, Jesus Christ.

    this is dishonoring to the Lord for us to esteem something that has no origin with His Holy Spirit. do we esteem the Word of God as much as we have gloried in this film? i think not. it really concerns me when i see christians that say this film is of God because i know them without a doubt that they do not know their Bibles. where is the believers discernment?
     
  5. sharpSword

    sharpSword Guest

    Diane "If this movie can reach those in other lands who have before had NO interest or no knowledge of Christ Jesus our Lord, who are we to say God cannot use this movie and the talent GOD HIMSELF gave Mel Gibson?"

    Umm Diane...are you thinking the five talents Scripture is actually referring to Mel Gibsons acting talents? :eek: And that they are God Given?

    Mel Gibson believes unless you belong to the Catholic church you are going to hell...He believes Mary is co-redeemer and she is crowned Queen of Heaven and rules at the right hand of Christ...have you got a Scripture for any of that?

    Mel Gibson's acting talents and director talents are no more God given and God glorifying than the movies he has participated in.

    Lethal Weapon 1,2,3 & 4; Braveheart; Mad Max, Payback; Ransom; ...

    The Million Dollar Hotel 2001 MPAA RATING
    R, language and some sexual content

    The Patriot 2000 MPAA RATING
    R, Strong war violence.

    What Women Want 2000 MPAA RATING
    PG-13, sexual content and language

    Payback 1999 > MPAA RATING
    R >
    CONSENSUS Sadistic violence

    Lethal Weapon 1 (1987), 2 (1989) , 3 (1992) & 4 1998 MPAA RATING R

    Conspiracy Theory 1997 MPAA RATING
    R, for some violence

    Ransom 1996 MPAA RATING R

    Air America 1990 MPAA RATING
    R

    Tequila Sunrise 1988 MPAA RATING
    R

    The man without a face > 1993 > MPAA RATING PG-13

    Signs > 2002 > MPAA RATING PG-13, some frightening moments

    We were soldiers 2002 > MPAA RATING R, sustained sequences of graphic war violence and language

    Braveheart 1995 MPAA RATING R

    His movies are filled with violence, foul language, taking the Lord's name in vain, adultery, and fornication, murder, theft and revenge are held in esteem. They do nothing to point to Biblical truth, rather, they take away. God given? Scripture please.

    Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    God hates violence and those that enjoy it.

    Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

    Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

    Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

    Diane "Nope, it is not. BUT it's a MOVIE. Only the Bible can do that! Again... it's a MOVIE! What part of that can people not understand"

    Well Diane, perhaps you could put an all points email out to all the religious leadership and people who haven't called this "just a movie" ....

    and tell them that it is not Biblically sound... like they state,

    nor is it historically accurate...like they state,

    nor does it proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ... like they state,

    and using divination sources for the content violates many Scriptures and presents another Gospel and another Jesus...

    And then maybe add a PS and say that the suffering, scourging and scenes depicted comes from divination sources and are false...

    and the Divinity Scriptures about Christ are changed in the movie to effectively eliminate the Divinity of our Lord...

    so people don't get a true picture of who Christ is and what He went through and why, in the movie...

    And then you can show why all the Mary stuff in the movie is Scripturally false...and the stations of the cross...

    and that it violates many Scriptures because He was abandoned by all, according to the Scriptures ...

    and then you can present a true and Scriptural account of Christ, from His purpose on earth to why He allowed Himself to be a willing sacrifice for all our sins, ...

    and why He didn't need to be drug along and dangled from a bridge...and that instead He gave Himself willingly because of His Perfect Love for us...

    and then tell how He rose again on the third day and now sits at the right hand of the Father. And those who belong to Him have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the promise of being with Him for all eternity, because our sins are forgiven because He took all our sins when He died on the cross.

    That would really help clarify the usefulness of this, 'just a movie.'

    1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
    22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
    23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Sorry Malky. You said: Congratulations, Diane you have actually crossed back over the line in the sand - three cheers for ya!!!

    I have ALWAYS said this is a MOVIE that can and has been used by God and I never said it was perfect in scripture or totally non-Catholic. I did say I did not notice the Catholic parts as I had never heard of those things such as Veronica's veil.

    I'm still standing where I stood from the first and still strongly support this movie.

    Diane [​IMG]
     
  7. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    Diane,

    I was just wondering. Were you raised in or around the catholic faith?
     
  8. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    At His Feet wrote:
    this is dishonoring to the Lord for us to esteem something that has no origin with His Holy Spirit. do we esteem the Word of God as much as we have gloried in this film? i think not. it really concerns me when i see christians that say this film is of God because i know them without a doubt that they do not know their Bibles. where is the believers discernment?

    MalkyEL: Excellent points. Nice to see you posting a good balanced approach! Welcome to the forum [​IMG]

    The believers discernment has been traded off for fuzzy feelings and emotional responses [​IMG]

    If you feel bad enough for what Jesus went through, that must mean you love Him enough. Love for God is not birthed in violence, it is found in His heart.

    Neither does God advocate violence to teach us the Gospel. His Word is like pure silver refined 7 times and does not return to Him void. He has given us everything we need to lead the lost to a saving knowledge of Jesus is within its pages.

    Shalom, MalkyEL: :cool:
     
  9. At His Feet

    At His Feet New Member

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    I will stand for the Lord and His Truth.

    God cannot lie. He will not lead me astray.

    Thy Word have I hid in my heart that i might not sin against thee.Psalm 119:11

    Deu 28:14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, [to] the right hand, or [to] the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

    Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

    Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
     
  10. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    I was born and raised in the church. The one thing I learned more than anything else, is that the Bible is the Rule Book. Everything I do, think, say, watch, hear, and speak must line up with what God has to say about it.

    Proverbs is one of my favorite books because it reminds me that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.

    Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    Pro 4:13 Take fast hold of instruction; let [her] not go: keep her; for she [is] thy life.

    Pro 5:11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed,
    12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

    Pro 5:23 He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray.

    Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

    Pro 12:1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof [is] brutish.

    Pro 13:1 A wise son [heareth] his father's instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.

    Pro 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

    Pro 19:20 Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.

    Jer 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.

    Jer 32:33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching [them], yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

    2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Shalom, MalkyEL
     
  11. At His Feet

    At His Feet New Member

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  12. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    Wow...the Truth of His Word is blinding....

    Am I on the fundy thread?
     
  13. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    S&T,

    You are on that nice remote island where reality coffee is served and enjoyed - remember? [​IMG] [​IMG] :cool:
    [sunglasses for the blinding light . . . ]
     
  14. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows New Member

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    Hey MalkyEL,

    Interesting screen name! Is that a Hebraism? "my king, God".

    CEM [​IMG]
     
  15. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    Charles,

    Thanks for asking. You are correct [​IMG] - it's Hebrew for "God is my King", reading from right to left. :D

    Shalom, MalkyEL :cool:
     
  16. At His Feet

    At His Feet New Member

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    Forget the shades, it heals blindness As far as i am concerned there is only one Truth!
     
  17. Spirit and Truth

    Spirit and Truth New Member

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    Malky El:

    Thanks for asking. You are correct - it's Hebrew for "God is my King", reading from right to left.

    S&T:

    Change the El to Elahh, and you have the Aramaic version to "honor" the new trend that the movie has created. :cool:
     
  18. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Nope. Southern Baptist my whole life and in church 3 times a week since 2 weeks old and a Christian for 43 years this summer.

    BTW... My pastors all support the movie too. (We have 5 pastors if we count all the retired (1) and active pastors) I went with 2 of our pastors, 5 deacons, one pastors wife, one deacons wife as a group to preview the movie before recommending it to our congregation. Our church took our youth and their parents to the movie a few weeks back.

    Catholic exposure? There was one Catholic family down the road but we called them the 'Catholic kids' and didn't play with them. That's why I didn't notice the things like Veronica's Veil because I've never heard of those things. I watched for it during my second and third viewing of the movie. I have no idea what the 'Stations of the Cross' are. I've heard it mentioned. I remember the first time I saw ashes on someones head for Ash Wednesday! I told them they had gotten something all over their face!

    Again, this is a MOVIE about the last hours of Christ and not the Gospel. Ever read C.S. Lewis? Read those Left Behind books? Josh McDowell? Watch those people like Joyce Meyer or Kay Arthur?

    I'll say it again. God used a big fish, small trees, a coin in a fishes mouth, a tax man, strong winds, raging fire, a still small voice, birds to drop manna, angels, dreams, visions, burning bush, plagues and a talking ass. He can use this movie too.

    Bed Time in Georgia! Night, night!
    Diane
     
  19. MalkyEL

    MalkyEL Guest

    Diane wrote:
    I'll say it again. God used a big fish, small trees, a coin in a fishes mouth, a tax man, strong winds, raging fire, a still small voice, birds to drop manna, angels, dreams, visions, burning bush, plagues and a talking ass. He can use this movie too.

    MalkyEL:
    All those things were purposed, ordained, and brought forth by Almighty God for His glory.

    The movie is what satan does best - a gross and inaccurate imitation destined to bring people into his kingdom of eternal death.
     
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