1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Passion of Mel Gibson

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by firedome, Feb 24, 2004.

  1. firedome

    firedome New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Madam, you completely missed the point of my statement. The point deals with the fact that there is no mention of this/these events taking place in the Holy Scriptures. The events that are portrayed in this film is derived from a vision that deprived nun in Germany receives to fill in the holes of the gospel accounts. You have previously stated that this film could be used to bring many people to Christ. Which Christ will it bring them to? What is the spiritual message being conveyed by this film? Does it have undertones of a co-redemptrix in Mary?

    There is no need for a film to evoke the emotions of a mother for the Father has shown what we need to be shown. I can clearly imagine the pain that went through Mary's heart. The pain is evidenced by her silence at the foot of the cross in the gospel accounts. Silence has a definite affect on one that cannot be explained or recounted; it can only be felt in the soul.

    God has shown us what is important about the crucifixion, the events immediately leading up to it and the subsequent events thereof. We are given but a few scant verses of the actual scourging and death of our Savior, but given copious amounts of evidence of the anguish of our Savior's soul preceding the crucifixion. This begs the question of why did the Father bring darkness upon the cross? Let me just say that it was so the despicable lusts of the human heart could not be satisfied because they sat down to watch Him die. (Matthew 27:36)

    Satan knows that he has lost the War so the battle that rages now is a battle for people's souls! It is a battle to see how many souls he (Satan) can draw down the drain with him! This has nothing to do with what I think; it has to do with what God's Word speaks of.

    To address your temporal concerns, you are correct in saying that I am no Mother, but I am a Father. It has been said that the woman bears the burden of a child for 9 months, but the man bears the burden of the child for a lifetime.
     
  2. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Actually, wasn't He naked? Imagine what the criticism would be if the movie portrayed his nakedness. You are right, it is blasphemy to not depict Christ on the cross as naked.

    The Gospels say he was stripped and they cast lots for his garments.

    These nonissues would be solved if Mel would just recant and become a Baptist.
     
  3. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0

    No. Crucifixion was done with the subject completely stripped. Artisans who have depicted the crucifixion of Jesus have always placed upon him a loincloth, out of respect.

    Sound advice. I, too, have a ticket for this weekend (Saturday). This past Sunday, I attended my cousin's church, as Jim Caviezal (Jesus) was the pulpit guest. He had quite a testimony.

    You're right about that. This past weekend, I did some intense person study on the last 12 hours of Jesus' life, and found that there are significant differences between the Gospel accounts. You can't simply take all four of them, mix 'em together, and put them on screen, at least not without some dramatic licence. I don't fault these films for doing so. I don't subscribe to silver screen theology, so dramatic license doesn't bother me in the slightest.
     
  4. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG] I recently made this point elsewhere, though it was not quite as effective as your post. If Mel were, say, a Baptist, or a Presbyterian, I doubt we as a Baptist community would be looking at this movie so critically. We'd be likely praising it with near unanimity. But we instead say "oh, since he's a catholic, the film is hence bad". Sad.
     
  5. Kiffin

    Kiffin New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,191
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Johnv. Are you sure? I have read that some believe it was not the case for Palestine because of Roman sensitivity to Jewish OT Law against public nudity. I however cannot find the book that states that in my library. Of course I could be wrong. I will look for that book.
     
  6. vaspers

    vaspers New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    0
    This discussion has gone way beyond vulgar. I refuse to debate such vile considerations in connection with my Savior.

    The gospels have led souls to Christ for 2000 years. And not inaccurate, irreverent movies morbidly dwelling on the savagery.

    This movie sounds like a cult hypnotic processing mechanism to me. My pastor is pleading with deacons and others to see it, then telling them, "Then you will get up on the pulpit next Sunday and testify to the church about how much you liked it." And if they did not like it, or do not go?

    I will not be processed by this film. You all can if you want. Not me.
     
  7. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you Jiminy Cricket.
     
  8. er1001

    er1001 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    0
    Most of the reports about the Movie have been positive however those with a different view should check out the web sight "www.letgodbetrue.com" and scroll down to and click on the review of the "passon of the Christ"quite a different perspective is offered there.
     
  9. onestand

    onestand New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm a tad curious as to why this movie is causing such debate. Perhaps scripture does not mention the emotions Mary felt or how she may have reacted to those emotions of seeing her son being beaten to a point she couldn't recognize him or standing by watching while others spit in his face then hung him on the cross in pain. Does that mean that it's wrong for someone to show what *they* think she might have gone through? Mel did say this movie was from his view point from reading the gospels. Mel isn't saying "this is what scripture says", he's only showing more emotion from a humane stand point and to be honest we could use more of that. I think it's wonderful that in a world of people who don't even believe God is real or think that the stories in the bible are made up by some dilusional person for entertainment, there is someone in the secular world who can actually put a film out to show that this story was really real and it happened to a real person who still lives.

    Joan
     
  10. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    I downloaded Martin's sermon on the Passion last night and burned it on a CD and listened to it on the way to work this morning, ( it takes me an hour to get to work), it was excellent and he makes a very cogent arguement for ignoring this movie.
     
  11. firedome

    firedome New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    I quite agree my brothewr

    Maranatha,
    Rodney
     
  12. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    0
    The problem with this movie is that it is a Roman Catholic movie teaching Roman Catholic theology. If Roman Catholicism doesn't bother you and heresy doesn't bother you, then this movie probably won't bother you either. Yes, it does realistically depict and movingly portray some parts of the Gospel. However, this makes it all the more dangerous because the man in the street is unable to discern spiritual truth from error. Even though it does have a measure of truth and realism, we need not go to the garbage can to find a little good food that may be there along with the spoiled foodstuff. Furthermore, a little truth mixed with error is dangerous. Dr. Frank Sells, a Bible teacher of the past generation, said: “The most dangerous thing is the thing closest to the truth but that is not the truth.” It applies here. Truth mixed with error is falsity. After all, rat poison is 99% good corn and only 1% strychnine.

    For the person who whines that one can’t judge the movie without seeing it needs to wake up and clear the cobwebs from his mind. There is plenty of evidence from the director/producer himself, Mel Gibson, and the Roman Catholic organizations to discern whether it is compatible to fundamental, Bible-believing, Baptist theology. It definitely is not. Furthermore, this line of false reasoning is tantamount to saying that we can’t condemn homosexuality unless we have tried it. HOGWASH!

    In sum, this movie is a Roman Catholic film teaching heresy. All the other arguments about trivia are irrelevant. Either you have a problem with RC theology or you don’t. I for one have a huge problem with it. I would not recommend a lost person to see the movie. By accepting a counterfeit gospel and a false religion, it would make him ten times more the child of hell. Those trusting false religion (i.e. Muslim, Roman Catholic, etc.) are much harder to win to Christ than a poor, wretched sinner.

    So, let’s cut the slop and sentiment. The movie stinks theologically.
     
  13. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have you seen it, paidagogos? Can you provide some specific, conclusive examples?
     
  14. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just what do the Gospels say concerning the sufferings of our savior. Lets just take the book of Matthew for starters. His physical suffering is found in ch 27:26,

    Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

    And then in verse 31,

    And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

    Thats about it. Why Mel has to focus on about two hours of gratuitous bloodletting and why anyone would want to subject their family to this unbiblical macabre scene is beyond me.
    I would rather focus on Jesus off the cross.
     
  15. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Diane, you are probably a great person—kind, caring, tenderhearted, sincere, compassionate, etc. However, this is not the issue—your personal feelings. The bottom line is whether the movie is Scriptural or not. The movie does, in fact, conform largely to the narrative of the Gospel accounts. On these matters (i.e. narrative or story line), there is little disagreement between Roman Catholic or Protestant and Roman Catholic or Baptist. This, however, is only a superficial aspect and is not necessarily the real issue. Furthermore, it is not about whether the story moves you, me, or anyone else. I have read sentimental Hindu stories about children or animals that stirred my feelings but the message was pure Hindu doctrine. The same is true here. The problem is with the doctrinal content and the message that it is teaching.

    The artistic genre is such that even though much is left open to one’s own interpretation, yet there is a consistent message proclaimed throughout. However, the genre through intense emotions and feelings sells its message and bypasses the reason. The message is one of Roman Catholic soteriology (i.e. doctrine of salvation). The Roman Catholics teach a false doctrine of salvation. Therefore, this is a very, very dangerous movie! Why? Because it is so well-done, moving, palpable, and contains truthful scenes, it along with its heretical teachings is easily swallowed by those lacking spiritual discernment and a sound Biblical and doctrinal background. It is heresy in an easily digested form.

    BEWARE!
     
  16. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who says that's the bottom line? You? Me? The Bible? The Baptist Distinctives? It seems the detractors of this fims are far more guilty of "putting too much" into this film than those who have seen it and praised it.

    It's amazing how you know so much about a movie you haven't seen.
     
  17. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    2,279
    Likes Received:
    0
    Read my post! What does this have to do with anything? Check the I-net for Mel Gibson's comments. Peruse the RC study guide being distributed for the movie. Do your own homework. Do you expect me to forage, eat, and digest it all for you? I won't waste my time arguing the weave of Jesus’ robe, the number of straps on His sandals, or the length of His beard. I don’t have time to play games and pursue trivia.

    Here are a few specific objections:
    1. It supports the Mass and its repetitive sacrifice of Christ. (e.g. The flashback during the crucifixion to the Last Supper where the bread and wine literally become the body and blood of Christ according RC theology.)
    2. It overly emphasizes the physical suffering of Christ to the neglect of the spiritual aspect. How can one portray the sin of the world laid on Christ?
    3. It teaches no salvation outside the church—meaning that apostate organization called the Roman Catholic Church. (Mel Gibson is on record saying this.)
    4. It teaches penance rather than repentance. Penance is not a Scriptural doctrine—it is Roman Catholic.
    5. It teaches that our suffering along with Christ may secure our salvation.
    6. It is replenish with myths of Mariology.
    7. It is filled with the heretical symbolism of Roman Catholicism.

    There are many more objections. If these don’t bother you enough to do your own research, then I’m wasting my time because more objections will not persuade you either—you will have made up and closed your mind. Good enough?


    [​IMG]
     
  18. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2001
    Messages:
    6,630
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Apostle Paul and I disagree with you.

    The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
     
  19. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    "HE IS NOT HERE, HE IS RISEN."
     
  20. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can anyone who has seen the movie varify, or refute, anything that was said above? Unless I hear from someone otherwise, paidagogos' comments are nothing more than speculation.

    I, for one, will see it myself, and tell y'all whether he's right or not. I'm guessing paidagogos is way off base.
     
Loading...