The Pre Mil Position

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim
Allan, can you state your beliefs in clear terms for the list? Do you believe that the land involved, the physical space and dirt, was not to be taken literally by Abraham as a real parcel of real estate in the covenant God made to Abraham and his descendants?

HP: Allan, why you would believe your answer was anything BUT open and straight forward is beyond me. I asked a straight forward question pertaining to 1. the physical land 2. Whether or not Abraham and his descendants were the direct inheritors of that physical land then, and now.

Your answer was vaguely futuristic, and evasive at best. Your answer did not address the physical land when Abraham lived or even his descendants today. By reading your response one could not determine clearly whether or not your position was that they now or ever in reality inherit physical land, but rather your remarks leave the reader open as to just how, in what future those promises would be fulfilled. You gave no indication directly whether or not they would be fulfilled in this world, the next world, literally or physically, or if in fact only in some limited spiritual sense.

The plain truth is that regardless of how you see your motives, or how you think that you were forthright, if you expect the reader to understand your answer clearly, you are going to have to speak directly to the question and not answer in the evasive manner you have now done three times.

Here would be an example of a forthright answer to my question. (Not suggesting that this would be your answer, just an example of a clear forthright answer.) : No, I do not believe that the physical dirt or land of Canaan, was promised by God to Abraham and his descendants in his day literally as their possession, nor is it today. The land promised was speaking of some future time in which the land, either physically and or spiritually, would be theirs as a possession.

Pressed again after your first evasive answer, here was your second response:

HP: Once again you evade the real issues just as you did in your first response. I did NOT ask about anything in the future Allan. I asked about in the day of Abraham and today as we speak, does that land rightfully NOW belonging to Israel, physical Israel, the nation Israel as we know and understand to exist in the Middle East today, that was chartered as a nation by the UN in 1946(?), as a promised possession for as long as this earth physically exists in the state it is in, i.e. as an everlasting possession?

Allan, please make a careful note. “Still to be fulfilled” is evasive remark and does NOT answer my question forthright. Such words can mean dirrefent things to different people. As I said, you have every right to be evasive if you desire to be misunderstood, and you do not have to respond if you want to hide your true sentiments. If you want to be understood and participate openly and honestly in meaningful debate, you need to state your answers clearly, speaking directly to the questions asked.

 

HP: This makes no sense whatsoever. Tell us how man can be responsible for a nature of sin, when in fact it was nothing more than a necessitated consequence of being born human according to the way I understand you? Are you suggesting that a Just God will hold men accountable for a nature that He created them with and they never had the slightest involvement in acquiring it themselves, and having once acquired such a nature, sin was nothing more or less than a necessitated outcome?
Some justice that envisions.

What love. Create a being necessitated to sin, and then punish him for all eternity for failing to overcome necessitated fate, something even God cannot do. Sorry InChrist, the malady you are picturing is impossible in light of immutable principles of justice to comprehend, let alone accept.

 

InChrist, you give me a tall order. For starters go to this link on Baptist Board for a brief post on the issues. http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=56479&page=3 post #23. Possibly that thread would be more appropriate to respond concerning the issues you ask about. Hope that helps.

 

Allan, I appreciate the clear, precise answer you gave in your last post. Thank you! Well stated!:thumbs: I also hear your admonition and will do my best to take heed.