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The Purpose of Isaiah's Writings.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jacob59, Feb 22, 2021 at 5:53 AM.

  1. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    After reading through Isaiah, certainly mindful of the circumstances under which it was penned, and aware of the supposed dual authorship, a basic question came to mind.

    Apart from the Prophetic sections which speak of Christ, the places which speak of the Judean Babylonian judgement and return, and the sections that seem to speak of the New Jerusalem, is there anyone today within Christendom who is intended by God to grasp all of the far flung and complex imagery of Isaiah?

    If no person today in the Church Age can understsnd the incredibly complex, detailed, and overdrawn verbage, and if nobody can authoritatively grasp the intent God had for speaking through Isaiah, and through the other Prophets, why did God even preserve it for us Christians to read?

    At best, all Christian scholars have been able to do, after identifying the parts of Prophecy speaking to Christology and the Apocalypse, is to scratch out a few tentative theories for the bulk of OT Prophecy. But, they have no clue about its original intent and message to the Jews. Yes, we can see how God hates the sin and rebellion of His people, how He uses heathen nations to chastize them, yet repeatedly speaks merciful restoration into them.

    A partial answer to this dilemma is to see that all the OT Prophecy is voiced from God's perspective. Since the mind, thoughts, inner workings, and deliberations of God remain largely a complete mystery to us, so also do His expanded narratives and declarations, unless they are entirely abbreviated and dumbed down.

    If you do post here, please refrain from expanding and restating what I have already said. Contribute some original thoughts, please.

    Thanks so much in advance. Regards.
     
  2. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Hello Jacob, enjoyed reading this and how we can rejoice in God's complex thinking even though it is not understandable.
    Nothing to add but a suggestion: Examine how Isaiah quotes are used in the other books of the bible.
     
  3. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Indeed they are used by Christ and others. In fact, their usage ignores what is called "context."
     
  4. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    I couldn't disagree more.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God used isa.40-66 to reveal the new Exodus in The Servant of the Lord...OUR Lord Jesus Christ.
    Isa is quoted 17x by Paul between Romans 9-15, opening up some of this.
     
  6. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    At least God states that He is aware of our bafflement:

    For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
    neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
    For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
    so are my ways higher than your ways,
    and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    Isaiah 55:8-9

    But in spite of His complete separateness,
    He is knowable and wants us to know Him.

    Seek ye the Lord while he may be found,
    call ye upon him while he is near:
    Isaiah 55:6
     
  7. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    God only can read one's mind. Thankfully.
     
  8. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    That is onederful for me.
     
  9. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    What about God do you know beyond what is disclosed in Scripture?
     
  10. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Why do you not therefore understand all of Isaiah?
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    first half describes various judgements with some important concepts found in it.
    The second have is so striking some thought there were 2 authors
     
  12. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Beyond the bible all I know is speculative.
     
  13. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    You wrote:

    "If no person today in the Church Age can understsnd the incredibly complex, detailed, and overdrawn verbage, and if nobody can authoritatively grasp the intent God had for speaking through Isaiah, and through the other Prophets, why did God even preserve it for us Christians to read?"


    So basically your post narrowed to one question, why GOD prophesied while no one, even His prophets cannot grasp and understand intend and meaning of His prophesies.


    Proverbs 20.24

    24."All our steps are ordered by the Lord, how then can we understand our own ways?"



    Daniel 10.1.12

    1."In the third year of king Cyrus of Persia a word was revealed to Daniel, who was named Belteshazzar. The word was true and it concerned a great conflict. He understood the word having received understanding in the vision."


    It seems like that some prophets completely understood the prophesy of GOD, because they received it in vision, which quite often occurrence among prophets of GOD.


    Not all prophesies are difficult to understand, some of them are straight forward.


    Joshua 6.26

    26."Joshua then pronounced this oath saying, "Cursed before the Lord be anyone who tries to build this city this Jericho! At the cost of his firstborn he shall lay its foundation, and at the cost of his youngest he shall set up its gates!" (1Kings 16.34). It came true some 300 years later (1KINGS 13.2-3) (2KINGS 23.16.20) (2CHRONICLES 34.5).


    Numerous prophesies also had been issued by GOD through His prophets concerning exiles of Israel and Judah, and they are all very well understood, the problem is, they had been neglected with disbelieve.


    Some of the prophesies are very well understood, but hard to believe, and this is why some people rejected them just for that reason. One of such prophesies concerning weapons and wars I placed below, and it has been repeated almost word to word by three different prophets.


    Isaiah 2.4

    4."He shall judge between the nations and shall arbitrate for many peoples, they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks, nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." (Micah 4.3) (Joel 3.10)



    But Jesus outlined exactly why prophesies of the men of GOD had been ignored, misunderstood, and prophets despised.


    Matthew 13.14-15.57

    13."Therefore, I speak to them in parables, because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.



    14.And in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'You will keep on hearing but will not understand, and you will keep on seeing but will not perceive.



    15.The heart of this people has become dull, and with their ears they scarcely hear, and they have closed their eyes so they should not see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and return, and I should heal them'. (Deuteronomy 29.4) (Isaiah 6.9-10, 29.10, 43.8) (Ezekiel 12.2) (Matthew 13.14-16) (Mark 4.12, 8.18) (Luke 8.10) (John 12.40) (Acts 28.25-27) (Romans 11.8-10)



    57.And they took offense at Him, but Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor, except in his home town and in his own household." (Matthew 13.57) (Mark 6.4) (Luke 4.24) (John 4.44)


    Verse 57 reveal another reason why prophets had been neglected, because own country men and even own family sometimes cannot accept reality that one of their own sons a prophet of GOD. Very much same thing happened and to Jeremiah (Jeremiah 12.6).


    It seems to me that the problem is not in GOD Who prophesied difficult prophesies to understand, but in people who are so consumed with their every day vanity and chores that they became "blind" and "deaf" to the Word of GOD. They are not only do not understand His prophesies, they do not understand His Laws as well.


    John 12.39-40

    39."For this cause they could not believe, for Isaiah said again,

    40."He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so they do not see with their eyes and perceive with their hearts, and be converted, and I heal them."

    (Deuteronomy 29.4) (Isaiah 6.9-10, 29.10, 43.8) (Ezekiel 12.2) (Matthew 13.14-16) (Mark 4.12, 8.18) (Luke 8.10) (John 12.40) (Acts 28.25-27) (Romans 11.8-10)



    Indeed, some of the prophesies very difficult to understand and in some cases almost impossible, but I believe this is done for a reason, in order to open understanding of a prophesy at a certain time for its maximum effect.


    Jeremiah 30.24

    24."The fierce anger of the Lord will not turn back until He has executed and accomplished the intents of His mind. In the latter days you will understand this."



    2 Peter 1.20-21
    20."First of all you must understand this, that no prophesy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

    21.because no prophesy ever came by human will, but men and women moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from GOD."



    And the days will come then GOD will pour His Holy Spirit on His people, and they will not only understand His prophesies but will be prophets themselves.


    Acts 2.18

    18."Even upon My bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit and they shall prophesy."
     
  14. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Give us a few examples of how Isaiah's Prophecy actually orders your personal steps.
     
  15. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    Are you referring to: Proverbs 20.24?


    KSB - "Man's steps are ordained by the Lord."

    KJV - "Man's going are of the Lord."

    NRSV - "All our steps are ordered by the Lord."

    NIV - "A person's steps are directed by the Lord."

    ESV - "A man's steps are from the Lord."

    Gideons - "A man's steps are of the Lord."

    GNB - "The Lord has determined our path."


    Prophecy of Isaiah (Salvation of Jehovah) orders my steps to Christ. At my beginning as a believer it was the prophesy of Isaiah about Christ that convinced me that the Christ of the New Testament is real Christ, the Son of GOD, the Messiah. It is also fortified my trust and faith in legitimacy and truth of the Bible and all its prophets.


    Prophecy of Isaiah orders my steps in the knowledge of the ancient world and how GOD dealt with disobedient Israel and other nations of the Earth. It gave me a very good comparison with our modern day godless world, and I expecting the same wrath of GOD on wicked and on ungodly as it was described by Isaiah in his time. So Isaiah directed my steps to avoid engaging me in worthless politics and prepare myself for the worst, for the wrath of GOD on this godless world.


    Prophecy of Isaiah orders my steps in importance of faith and spirituality in general. Isaiah declared that for GOD is not important numerous sacrifices and rituals of physical worship, but mercy, compassion, and love, much more important to Him than physical rituals and sacrifices. Isaiah put spiritually first, just like all other prophets did and as Christ teach people in His Statements.


    Prophecy of Isaiah orders my steps in hope. Despite the fact that prophecies of Isaiah reveal the wrath of GOD on Israel and the nation of the Earth and His severe punishment upon ungodly, Isaiah also revealed great compassion and mercy of GOD and reveal that He is not angry forever, and after punishment He embrace humanity and particularly Israel with forgiveness and love. So and I also have hope on GOD'S mercy and forgiveness for my own sins and iniquities, because He treat us as earthly father treat his son, with discipline, forgiveness, and love.


    Prophecy of Isaiah orders my steps in reverence to Zion, about which Isaiah prophesied a lot. The Zion - Jerusalem, the holy Hill of GOD is the center of the Earth. It is a spiritual center of the Earth, and GOD'S feet rest on Jerusalem, it is His footstool.


    Prophecy of Isaiah orders my steps to know that all the nations of the Earth will come to Jerusalem and will worship the Lord GOD at His holy Temple, which is very consistent with Revelation of John. It gives me hope and reassurance that will be the day on this Earth then GOD will reign supreme, and all the nations of the Earth will worship the Lord GOD in Jerusalem at His holy Temple. Israelites at that time will be again His priests and His servants as it was intended at the beginning.


    Prophecy of Isaiah orders my steps to avoid reliance and faith in mankind and direct my steps on reliance on GOD only.


    I can continue indefinitely writing about what the prophecies of Isaiah mean to me. The same I can tell about all the prophets and the men of GOD whose prophecies I read and study. The whole Bible itself directs my steps and guides me through my life.


    I am far from perfection but as long as I live I will try to improve myself and achieve better heights in my knowledge and understanding of GOD'S Word, and of course will try to improve my spiritual life as much as I could, in order to be forgiven and saved.
     
  16. Jacob59

    Jacob59 Member

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    Thanks for your wonderful explanation and self disclosure.

    However, let's be aware of the need for English language continuity without word confusion. The attainment of knowledge and faith through the Word of God are not ordered steps. On Earth today, knowledge and faith are intangibles. Perhaps later in Heavenly dimensions they will be material.

    How do Isaiah and the other Prophetic writings order your daily life? More than just background information?
     
  17. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    He did talk about it through life experience it but you need to defend your position. Why don't you do it first and provide the pattern.
     
  18. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    You wrote:
    "On Earth today, knowledge and faith are intangibles."


    Yes, to some point it is true, but not the norm. The Bible has been interpreted so many times and has many different variations and version, but it still contains its major spiritual essence and meaning.

    In your remark you put word "knowledge" first and word "faith" second, and this is absolutely right order of things. Without knowledge it is impossible to obtain faith. This is why GOD constantly issued His Laws, Statutes, Ordinances, and Commandments to all humanity from the beginning in order to give humanity the knowledge of His Being and His Ordinances.

    The knowledge is a fertile ground, the faith is its product (produce, fruit). The more knowledge applies, the more growth in faith.

    It is true that knowledge and faith today are kind elusive, ant it seems that many people have knowledge, but for some reason do not have faith, and everything only in words but without support of deeds of faith. I actually posted post on this theme a while ago.


    You asked:
    "How do Isaiah and the other Prophetic writings order your daily life? More than just background information?"


    I already very much answered this question, and this is not about Isaiah alone, because entire Bible with all its context can drastically effect our daily life in very positive way, and of course mine as well, which it does.

    In the Bible everything is very important, even genealogies which are usually completely skip and omit by people have immense importance in our understanding of connection between different races and nations.

    Books of Kings and Chronicles rarely discussed, but these Books revealed the politics and structure of the ancient world which is surprisingly very similar to our modern day politics, and opens up to us how politics actually done and work and all its dirty secrets. It gives me very precise point of view what to expect from the politicians today, and to know when they lie or telling the "truth." Really, nothing new under the sun.

    And of course the Books of Psalms, Ecclesiastes, and Proverbs, how wonderful they are and "sweet as honey." These Books are the guides for successful and prosperous life under the Lord. These Books contain not only earthly wisdom but also and spiritual wisdom as well. To have both wisdoms means to be safe, happy, successful, and have enjoyment in life.

    On this site people often ask for help in their personal life and need a good advise and a prayer, but the Bible has all the answers! Why asking someone who help who does not know nothing about your personal life, ignoring in the process the Book in which all you can find all your answers, and the GOD Who knows more about you than you know about yourself?
     
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