The "Rapture". When????

quote:
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11R. Time of joy.
11SC. Time of sorrow.

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Dean: "No scripture."

Matthew 24:30 for the time of sorrow at
he coming of Jesus in power in Glory
I'll look up some verses about how great
it will be to be at the rapture/resurrection,
you do believe the rapture/resurrection is something worth
being at, don't you?

... here we go:

11R. Time of joy. (1Thessalonians 4:17-18)
11SC. Time of sorrow. (Matthew 24:30)

 

That still doesn't show that the rapture and second coming are two separate events....especially since Paul said that the rapture is at the coming of the Lord !

The verses you brought, which refer to the coming of the Lord, read:

That same day will come upon the world as a thief, bringing them destruction....so the same day of the Lord will be comforting for believers, and destructive for unbelievers.

It seems to me that your whole 'proof' is built upon a faultiy interpretation of Daniel nine which says nothing of an antichrist....only of two princes - the messiah, and the roman prince who destoys the temple (titus).

 

another 50 rounds on the rapture -- how |||| pathetic

 

Ed,

Daniel 9:24-27 say nothing about rapture or Christ's coming. Neither this passage saying about the future supposed 'seven year of "tribulation period"'. This passage talking about the prophecy of the coming Messiah for to make a new covenant and salvation that would be 490 years later since Daniel penned it down, and it was fulfilled by Calvary.

1 Thess 4:14-18 say nothing about either '3 1/2 years or '7 years' earlier before Christ's coming. This passage talking about the promise that we shall see our love ones AT Christ's coming.

1 Thess 5:1-10 say nothing about either '3 1/2 years' or '7 years' earlier before Christ's coming. This passage talking about Christ's coming shall be like as thief in the night. Christ's coming IS the day of the Lord same as 'day of Christ' - Phil. 1:6, 10; and 2 Thess 2:1-2.

Bible never saying rapture is separate from the coming of the Lord. Often it telling us, rapture shall be AT Lord's coming same time. Very simple.

Again, your verses still not yet prove my question. YOu do need a solid or evidence verse to answer my question, please. Thanks.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

DeafPostTrib

Amen and Amen!!!!

 

When? Anytime He pleases. Might be 5 minutes from now, might be 5,000 years from now. The only important question should be, "Are you ready?"
Any other questions are purely mental gymnastics.

 

Do Matt 24:36, 42 actually saying it is 'pretrib' rapture?

The context of Matthew chapter 24 talking about Christ's coming at the end of the world. Christ does not discuss about TWO comingS. Christ discuss about HIS coming at the end of the world.

Yes, that is true, we always be ready all the times, do not know when Christ comes. Rev. 3:2 tells us, we must always be ready till death. We do not know when we will die, maybe today, maybe tonight, next newt week, maybe next month, maybe next year. We must always be prepared for it. Why? Because we all shall face the judgment seat of Christ to judge us. No one shall escape from it. That why we ought always be ready all the time because of the judgment seat of Christ.

'Be watch and ready' does not make it into 'pretrib'. It motitives us, that our spiritual must be prapared all the time, because we all shall be face the judgement day to judge us.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Yes, we should live for the world to come, but do not be more righteous than the apostle Paul who said 'now concerning times and seasons, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant.'

 

DeafPosttrib: "Do Matt 24:36, 42 actually saying
it is 'pretrib' rapture?"

Yes. Neither verse has much meaning without a
pretrib rapture. Though i suppose someone will want to
twist the scripture so it does. Have at it.

BTW, Brother DPT, i still wonder why you think disagreeing
with 10% of my minor points invalidates my major point?
My Major Point is that the Rapture/Resurrection of the
saints at the end of the Church Age is before the
Tribulation period.

Matthew 24:36 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible)
Now concerning that day and hour no one
knows--neither the angels in heaven,
nor the Son* --except the Father only.
Footnote: * some mms omit "nor the Son"

This is the main reason That we believe that the rapture/resurrection
coming of Jesus is seperate from the Coming in power and glory
of Jesus to destroy the antichrist. The Coming in power
and glory of Jesus to destroy the antichrist is totally on
a schedule, with observable events happending 7 years prior and
other observable events happening 3½ years prior.
Once the treaty for the safety of Jerusalem is re-signed,
a 7-year clock starts ending with the Coming in power and glory
of Jesus to destroy the antichrist - this is the revelation of
the antichrist. 3½-years later when the antichrist
commits the abomination of desolation, a 3½-year clock starts
ending with the Coming in power and glory
of Jesus to destroy the antichrist.
This scheduling does NOT sound much like

By contrast, the coming of Jesus to collect His saints,
the rapture/resurrection comilng of Jesus - this is
actually totally unpredictable beforehand when it might
occur.

Some say these two events are together. Well, in God's ecomony,
they are together. Both the the rapture/resurrection
coming of Jesus and the Coming in power and glory
of Jesus to destroy the antichrist are one the same prophetic
day: the 7-year-long "day".

Matthew 24:42 (HCSB):
24:42
Therefore be alert, since you don't know
what day* your Lord is coming.

Other mms read hour, = time

Verse 42 of Matthew 24 restresses the immediacy of the
the rapture/resurrection coming of Jesus, it can happen
at any time. Note again that in God's economy,
1 day = 1 hour.
That is because "day" means "the appropriate time",
hour, means the appropriate time.
In God's economy 1 hour = 1 day.
In God's economy for the Day of the Lord = God's
judgement on His people Israel = the Tribulation period;
7-years = 1 day = 1 hour.


DeafPosttrib: "The context of Matthew chapter 24 talking
about Christ's coming at the end of the world.

Wrong. The context of Matthew chapter 24
speaks about Christ's coming at the end of the age.

Matthew 24:3 (HCSB)
While He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples
approached Him privately and said,
"Tell us, when will these things happen?
And what is the sign of Your coming
and of the end of the age?"

The KJV1611, KJV1769, and KJV1873 are all wrong here.
The Greek term here is "eaon" (age) not "cosmos" (world).
Revelation 20 teaches that after this age, after the
tribulation period (transfer between ages) is a
Millinnial Kingdom of Jesus age of 1,000 years.
The world will be around for awhile longer. Make plans
now to share in future ages, part of God's reward for
Saints of this age who serve well.

- for Jesus -

 

The KJV1611, KJV1769, and KJV1873 are all wrong here.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
No they are not wrong. Just thought I would let the reader know that. Not all of us say that the Bible is wrong.

As for the Rapture, I believe it's just around the corner, but no man knoweth the hour nor the day when this great occurrence will take place. My advise to you is, get ready now so when it does happen, you'll be ready.

God bless,
RR

 

Ed,

Where verse in the Bible saying rapture/resurrection shall be BEFORE the Tribulation period? Please verse.

Bible does not saying that rapture/resurrection being separate from Lord's coming in power and glory.

Remember, the context of Matthew chapter discusses about Lord's coming at the end of the age. Christ does not giving any hint to his disciples that, there shall be TWO comings at the end of the age find anywhere in the context of Matthew chapter 24. We know that.

Matt 24:36 obivously speak of our preparing and watch for the second coming, that we must be ready.

Bible does not support your theory. You can't stretch "day" into 7 long years.

For example in John 6:39,40,44, & 54 telling us, that we shall be risen(resurrection) on the LAST DAY

Kids at the school, understand what the 'last day' means. THey are exciting that the next day of school will be the last day of the school. They know when after the last day of school past, then the next day, there shall be NO MORE class again for the summer!

Same with John 6:39,40,44, & 54 is very clear telling us that we shall be risen on the LAST DAY. Neither it saying 1,260 days or 1335 days or 2,555 days, or 365,000 days(1,000 years) either. It simple saying "Last day", we have to agree with Christ, what he saying, do not argue with Christ, what he saying, accept what he saying.

Again, Daniel 9:24-27 do nothing with the future supposed "7 years of Tribulation period". Neither this passage discuss about antichrist. THis passage talking about Messiah shall make a new covenant with many - Calvary, it already fulfilled 2,000 years ago- Mark 14:24.

There is no difference between 'world' & 'age'. Both are same defintion.

Yes, that is correct, Christ talked about His coming AT the end of the age.

Matthew chapter 13 verse 28 to 30; and 39 to 42 telling us, that the tares cannot be separated from the wheat TILL the harvest comes. That means, both unbelievers and believers are growing together over the world right now. Unbelievers cannot be separated from the believers UNTIL the end of the age. Obivoulsy, it speak of the only one coming of Christ.

Matthew chapter 24 is not hard for us to understand, what Christ was talking about.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

The RAPTURE will happen right on time!When we get to heaven all of our doctrinal issues will be cleared up.

 

Bro. Bill,

True. Right now, there are divided among Churches on the rapture timing. The debate on that never stop for long time. Till Jesus Christ comes, then the debate on rapture timing will stop immediately, and we all shall be unity together, the same mind, and we can forget about it forever and ever - easily.

But, we have to urge them to be faith, and be courage, no matter what kind situations we are facing today and future. Also, we should not be worry and fear about the future, we can do is trust in the Lord all the time - Matt 10:28.

We are living in America. America is filled with comfortable and peaceful. But, we better be prepared for the coming persecutions. When the persecutions hit churches of America, their faith might be shaked. Christ warns, in Luke 8:13 tells us, while they believed in the gospel or Christ for a short time, when the temptation/tribulation comes, their faith would be falling away. Never know, what if the perscution hit churches in America so hard, many Christians' faith might be shaked away.

Late Corrie ten Boom warned, America is the next country to face the coming persecutions, Christians in Amerifca better be prepared for the coming persecutions. Bible does not promise us, that we would have a rosebed. CHrist tells us, that we shall have tribulations, but be cheer, because Christ already overcome them - John 16:33. Also, Paul tells in Acts 14:22, that we must go through MUCH tribulations. Because of Christ sufered on the cross for us. So, therefore, we should Christ's example - 1 Peter 2:21.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

I Corinthians 15:52-53 describes the rapture best. When Paul mentions this he doesn't say "the coming of Christ" The coming of Christ is when Christ actually sets his feet on the earth again.

The rapture can come as a thief or a bride waiting for the bridegroom. A thief comes and you don't expect. but when you are watching the thief doesn't suprise you and that is the other way. Only God the Father knows when Christ will come.

 

I'm Pre-Wrath Rapture, between the opening of the 6th and 7th seal in Revelation.

The First 3 1/2 years of the seven year period is the beginning of sorrows (per Jesus in Matthew 24). The middle of the seven year period is the revealing of Anti-christ and The great Tribulation. The 5th or 5th year of the seven year period begins the Day of the Lord or the Wrath of God.

 

But the rapture is said to be at the "coming of the Lord." That day will overtake the world as a thief, in the which the heavens being on fire will be disolved, and the earth and all the works therein burnt up. Not much room there for Jesus stepping on terra firma again. But that day is not to overtake Christians as a thief, according to Paul - only the world.

 

The fifth trumpet was the rise of Islam in the seventh century.

http://www.historicist.com/horae.htm

Dean

 

Just some things to consider:
At the RAPTURE--Christ does not return to earth,
but catches believers up to meet Him above the earth/directly TO heaven.(Jn. 14:3-1 Thes.4:17)
at the SECOND COMING--Christ returns to earth to rule Israel and the world from David's throne in Jerusalem.(Zechariah 14:4)
At the RAPTURE--there is a resurrection of ALL believers who have died up to that time.(1 Cor. 15:52,53 1 Thes.4:6).
At the SECOND COMING--there is no resurrection until Antichrist is defeated/lake of fire(Rv.19:20,20:1-3).
At the RAPTURE, the bodies of living believers will be changed to become immortal.(1 Cor.15:51-53 1 Thes.4:17).
At the SECOND COMING all of the saints return with Christ FROM heaven and will therefore already have been changed into immortality.(Zech 14:5 Rv.19:11-15).
The RAPTURE occurs during relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30).
The SECOND COMING occurs in the midst of the worst war the world has ever seen.(Mt.24:21,22).
My thanks to Dave Hunt and "The Berean Call" (Not copyrighted) for this and much more information on this subject. Go to
www.thebereancall.org and find the October 2003 issue to pursue this further.

 

dclark14,

I will reply back to you on this, what you saying later tonight.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

dclark14 said "At the RAPTURE--Christ does not return to earth, but catches believers up to meet Him above the earth/directly TO heaven.(Jn. 14:3-1 Thes.4:17)"

Neither John 14:3 nor 1 Thess 4:17 mention heaven. If Christ continued to earth, these verses would still be true.

dclark said "At the SECOND COMING--there is no resurrection until Antichrist is defeated/lake of fire(Rv.19:20,20:1-3)"

The coming includes all events. The lack of specific mention of resurrection in the Antichrist passage does not preclude resurrection. You cannot rely on argument from silence.

dclark14 said "At the SECOND COMING all of the saints return with Christ FROM heaven and will therefore already have been changed into immortality.(Zech 14:5 Rv.19:11-15)."

Saints are changed into immortality when come from heaven return, not before (1 Cor 15:52)

dclark14 said "The RAPTURE occurs during relative peace and prosperity. (Lk.17:26-30)."

Luke 17 does not mention rapture. Paul was the first to reveal the mystery of the rapture.