The REAL Jack Hyles

bapmom, I don't recall saying that I am still angry with Hyles. Could you please point out where I said that?

 

Oh AVL,

please forgive me, you're right! I got mixed up in who I was talking to. David Ekstrom said he was still angry at Hyles.

Im sorry! I hope you aren't offended.....=)

 

No offense taken, bapmom. We all make mistakes.

I can understand some people still being angry with Hyles, or at least his teachings and his continued "legacy". It bothers me greatly that many are still following in the cultic footsteps of HAC/FBCH. I'm not saying there aren't good, Christian people there, because there are. I am saying, however, that the vast majority are still be sucked in by Schaap. With his constant invoking of Hyles name, I don't see much of a change, though many say there has been. Personal experience leads me to believe otherwise, and it is our duty as Christians to warn against the error of 'man worship' and false doctrines.

I'm sure Bro. Ekstrom knows what anger can do. I'm sure he's probably trying to deal with it. It's not as easy to let it go if you've been lambasted by the teachings of Hyles. For others, it's easier. Keep him in your prayers. Many are still hurt, have had their families or ministries destroyed by Hyles or his Hyles-bots! It's not always so easy to forgive or to forget.

Bro. T

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "Cultic"

 

Well, I think we've got a semantic problem with the word "anger." I believe that there is such a thing as righteous anger and there is a thing as bitterness. I would define righteous anger as a settled disposition toward evil. I do not think that such an attitude is harmful. In fact, I think that if someone says that they have no anger toward those who hurt them in the past, they're either not being honest with themselves or they are using the word anger in a different sense than I do.
Hyles is not dead and gone. Young people are still being duped by his legacy. That kind of authoritarian, legalistic, amoral, and abusive practices continue in many parts of IFBdom. We ought to be angry at being abused.
Thanks, though, for your expressions of concern. I used to hang out at the FFF and had to leave it. The reason was that my anger was becoming bitterness. That can happen very easily. There's a fine line between the two and I appreciate your concern that I not cross that line.

 

David Ekstrom,

I appreciate your willingness to take my posts as they were meant! =)

I too had to leave the FFF for basically the same reasons. Im glad that all is well.

I still don't know that I can say I agree with the strength of your position about him.....does that make sense? Im just not sure it rises to the level of abuse and amoral behavior. BUt then, Im a relative outsider, not being in the church and only seeing things from the periphery every once in awhile.

Thank you for listening! =)

 

To follow up, abusive leaders thrive on the passivity of their followers. Those who realize that they have an authoritarian, self-centered pastor who uses people for his own ends should get angry about it and stay angry about it. They should have that pastor fired. No pastor who abuses his office has the right to keep that office.
This nonsense about "leaving quietly" only hands the church over to the abuser. I say this as a pastor myself. My service at my church is a privilege extended to me by my congregation. If they don't think I'm doing a good job, they have the right and the duty to fire me.
If your pastor makes self-absorbed statements like, "God sent me to this church," and especially, "Touch not mine annointed" you've got problems. As a member of the church, it's your responsibility to do something about it.
I repeat something I said earlier. The deacons at FBC Hammond will have much to answer for.

 

May I clarify a question for myself? When you say statements like "God sent me to this church" are you meaning in the attitude of "this is where GOd placed me"?
My preacher knows God called him to our church, he loves us and feels that we are his God-given responsibility, and he often says that one day he will have to answer to God for his actions and his leadership....whether it was good or bad.

I guess I have to assume you meant that in a more negative fashion?

 

Posted by David Ekstrom

"This nonsense about "leaving quietly" only hands the church over to the abuser. I say this as a pastor myself. My service at my church is a privilege extended to me by my congregation. If they don't think I'm doing a good job, they have the right and the duty to fire me."

David, at times this is easier said than done. We went through this with a previous pastor. (non-Hyles by the way) He didn't believe anyone had the right to disagree with him on anything, let alone the right or duty to fire him. When he started to go off the wall doctrinally and the more mature Christians left one by one, we would be "discplined out" for having left the church and in would come more new Christians. Then, more would leave as they saw the light. A vicious cycle. There was no talking to the man. Anger? Yes, for a while, but we're not angry anymore, just sad.

 

Anyone who will follow a pastor like that has serious needs wanting to be met.

 

Anyone who will follow a pastor like that has serious needs wanting to be met. </font>[/QUOTE]Of course! They are all sheep needing to be led and fed. Thieves will come in and drive the sheep, but a real pastor will come in and lead them.

However, there is also another truth here... the sheep have to feed THEMSELVES, also. If not, then they are more susceptible (sp?) to falling under the leadership of a thief and not a shepherd.

 

There are also church members who act like Hyles. Despite being in the minority, they throw their weight around, intimidate others, and generally gum up the administrative/ministry process.

Fearful of what damage they can cause, people learn never to move forward for the kingdom of God. It isn't just pastors who won't listen or serve under the authority of the congregation and headship of Jesus Christ.

 

Amen, Paul, the pulpit isn't the only place for arrogant little men to push people around.
I agree with my sister that getting rid of an abusive pastor isn't easy.
Churches need to realize that church discipline is a very important thing. Conditions of abuse do not happen over night. We need to "nip it in the bud," as it were. This is for the sake of the abusers themselves. They don't see their error. Far better to have a senior saint take a young pastor out for coffee and lovingly confront him in the early days of his ministry.
We need to make sure our church constitutions have provisions for disciplining members. We need to make sure our church boards are comprised of team players. Those who aren't need to go. Let their money perish with them.
When people like Hyles are held up as role models, they do great harm. Young pastors think that that is the appropriate pattern for a pastor.
The only thing that saved me was that I was so badly burned by a Hyles-clone I served under that I vowed before God that integrity would come before "success."

 

Amen, David. But what happens when the young pastor has to take a senior saint out for coffee and lovingly confront him in the early days of the pastor's ministry?

Families are dysfunctional, and often, so are churches. Throw in a new pastor, and guess who is in trouble if he dares to confront sin?

 

Woah...Paul, have been there recently and DONE THAT! Thank the Lord I'm no longer the pastor!

 

For some reason I just keep coming back for more abuse.

In secular work I made six figures.

In the ministry I make alot less and have far more stress and abuse, and this from Christian saints!

 

http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=21464

 

Paul, know how that feels. I'm disabled at the present, but after a church split, took on the pastorate again. In just three weeks time I had been accused of things that I never thought I would hear from a Christians mouth. I wasn't distraught, but was ever so glad when the Lord brought Matthew 10 across my path and led us out of that church. There were some good people there. Why they are staying I can't understand, unless it is fear of the unknown or fear of change.

 

Be a church planter. That way you can train up your people and create your own set of problems.I don't mean that to come across in a negative way.
When you take a pastorate on in an established church you take on all of the baggage good and bad that exists in that church.When you plant a church you generally get to disciple and train most of the people in your church.You can see and deal with the problems as they arise if you don't it's on you.

 

Ditto! Unfortunately, my father got sucked into the Hyles mentality and now Jack Schaap. All I hear about is how great of a man Hyles was and what he did and pastor's school. I dug up some stuff a while back about HAC, as DH and I wanted to attend the college. I'm grateful that I found all of that before hand.

My father told me that it's okay that Dave didn't follow into his father's footsteps, not everyone has to. That's certainly not the reason why he can not hold the pastorate. Uhh, it gets irritating having to hear about how great this man was and his prodigy when you know the truth. There's a bad apple in every bunch, and he was a rotten one.