The Regulative Principle

JD: I agree that the regulative principle should be followed in areas of worship.

Much of the problem lies in discerning those elements that are "incidental" to worship (where you meet, the time you meet, using air conditioning/electricity...etc), from those that are essential to God-pleasing worship (Hebrews 12:28-29: .....by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe: (29) for our God is a consuming fire.)

Reverence and Awe are essential to God-pleasing worship. Any worship that is presented in a irreverant manner would not be pleasing.

peace to youraying:

 

Enthusiastic sixteenth-century proponents of JD's "principle" turned to smashing stained glass windows and desecrating gravestones.

 

The Regulative Principle (RP) is Irregular.

Those who adhere to the RP, Do they use pianos in worship?

I've even heard that Paul in Eph 5:19 is referring to just Psalms:

"speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord" (TNIV).

It seems odd to me that Paul would use three different Greek terms, if he were only referring to the Psalter.

 

Help me understand this minor dispute: How does the RP apply to Eph 5:19?

 

So far, JD has supported his use of the "regulative principle" with the arguments of men.

It would seem to me that if this were a Biblical issue, he could justifiy it with Scripture.

Oh well.

 

I apologise. I know I said I was leaving the debate and i fully intended too. However, the "cloudy but specific" issue really has me intrigued. How can it be both?

Could someone tell me, with scripture, specifically, exactly how I am to worship the Lord? Or is the issue to cloudy for that? Since the instructions are prescribed by God I should be able to get a yes or no, with Bible support of course. I will even be content if you could tell me which are incidental and which are prescribed - with scriptural support of course since God has specifically prescribed how we are to worship.

Can I project hymns on the wall?
Am I even allowed to use a hymnal?
Can I use a piano?
An organ?
A keyboard?
A guitar?
A violin?
Drums?
Must I sing only psalms?
Are modern hymns permitted?
Do I have to wear clerical robes when I preach?
May I wear clerical robes?
How about a suit and tie?
Is my order of service prescribed?
May I have Sunday school?
May I have a creche (nursery)?
May we meet anyplace except a private home?


I guess what I am looking for is which of these are cloudy and which are specifics. Since I have no liberty when it comes to worship according to a post above I really need to get this sorted so that I am in line with sola scriptura.

 

While I see the Emerging Church as problematic we need to be fair concerning Mark Driscol. He has repented , renounced, and apologized for this. Because he has it should be brought up no more.

 

I believe we are talking about PCs and tape machines. When carried out to its logical extreme, the RP can indeed deal with such things as PCs and tape machines and buildings and the like. This is where the hypocrisy comes in. You can't just say, "I'm going to worship exactly like the NT and then meet in a building like the Church of Christ people do without being hypocritical.

The regulative principle doesn't just deal with "the elements of Biblical worship," it deals with the entire Sunday service (which, by the way, is never called a "worship service" in Scripture) and other elements not even part of the Sunday service. The RP has been used in history to attack such things as Sunday School and musical instruments. These things are beyond the Biblica principles of worship, and are about how we carry out other principles given in the Bible.

 

Yes, Mark has repented and is in good company. Revmitchell, you're correct, and we need to get pass this.

 

I've been thinking about this and meaning to get back to it.

First of all, Nadab and Abihu were not punished for disobeying the regulative principle and adding to the worship God commanded. They were killed for direct disobedience against God's command on how to offer incense. They were killed for "strange fire" that was competition to God's fire.

Again, Uzzah was not killed for adding anything to God's plan of worship, he was killed for direct disobedience, for touching God's holy ark with his hands!

In fact, the story of Uzzah proves that God did not mean to add a RP to His commands. Note that the ark was being carried on a cart, something God never commanded, when Uzzah touched it. But Ahio, the brother of Uzzah who helped put the ark on the cart, was not punished with Uzzah because he did not touch the ark--that is, he was not in disobedience. They did not displease God with adding the cart to their methodology, but Uzzah angered God by his direct disobedience.

Also, at the time of the transportation of the ark, David had all sorts of music going. Was that commanded for the transportation of the ark? No! And David was not punished nor rebuked.

Again, later on David danced before the Lord as the ark was transported. That was not commanded for the transportation of the ark, yet David was not punished nor rebuked. So, these incidents in the OT actually disprove the RP. :type:

 

If there were a regulative principle, I would say it's found in John 4:23-24. They that worship the Father must worship Him in spirit and in truth. It appears that at the heart of this debate is what constitutes true, spiritual worship.

So, I'd like to see someone address that.

 

No, no, no, we are NOT talking about PCs and tape machines.
Tape machine are fine for recording sermons.
PCs are fine for use with projectors to replace printed hymnals and notes.

We are only talking specifically with ELEMENTS of worship, not CIRCUMSTANCES.

Elements being:

Prayer
Singing
Preaching of the Gospel
Reading of the word of God.
Baptism
The Lords Supper.


How you go about these is not so important.
For instance:

What order you do these in is a circumstance and is not proscribed.
Whether you use printed hymnals or a projector does not matter.

Whether you have a piano or a guitar or both to accomany your singing is up to each congregation to decide.

WHether you sit or stand while you sing is a circumstance.

Adding a puppet show to list of element is NOT ok.

So to reiterate, we are only talking about elements. PCs and tape machines, time of worship heating andd cooling devices are all circumstances.

 

Good point.
And how may we know how to worship Him in truth ? By adhering to the elements proscribed in scripture and not adding or subtracting.

 

Sounds pretty balanced Dale, thank you for clarifying.

I just don't know that we can condemn all additions based on an argument from silence.

But thank you again for being balanced and recognising soul liberty.