1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The rod

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by webdog, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    0
    The point I'm making, which is why I used the examples I did, despite your disagreement with them, is the author's intent was a literal rod . Whether I use a rod(aka branch or stick), a spoon, a flat board, or my hand, I am following the literal meaning intended by the author(as opposed to a figurative one), which is using physical discomfort to guide and correct as part of the discipline and training that I am commanded to do.
    Yes, I've heard this argument before.
    Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by "classifying it in the same way".
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    An example is training a child up in the way he should go, and when they are old they will not depart from it. It is stated that this isn't a promise, since it's wisdom literature. This differs from commands found outside Proverbs both in the OT and NT (10 commandments, etc.)

    Why can we discount the above Proverb...and not the 5 used to promote coproral punishment? As I have stated prior, I'm thinking out loud here, and as up to this point still support corporal punishment.
     
  3. Joe

    Joe New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Webdog, I don't believe you need a parenting class. Your posts show a loving, level headed, godly father. Hope you trust your instincts in studying the word over anyone else's advice.
    If anything, imo, it is you who should be teaching a parenting class.
    Your new baby is adorable, but I must admit, I'll miss the other pic of your son. Maybe I said this already. Sometimes I would imagine picking him up and giving him a big hug. He's one good looking kid! :1_grouphug:
     
    #43 Joe, Jan 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2008
  4. Isaiah40:28

    Isaiah40:28 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Proverbs is not the 10 commandments, but is a collection of useful principles that God's people would do well to heed and apply in their lives as best they can.

    I think the disagreement amongst Christians lies in one area, does the word of God give parents the authority to physically discipline their children if necessary as part of their obedience in teaching and training their children?
    I believe the answer is yes. Parents have been given by God through His Word the authority to discipline their children which at times may include pain and discomfort.
     
    #44 Isaiah40:28, Jan 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2008
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks for the encouragement, brother. I'm learning on the fly :)

    I will soon have a pic up with my son holding my daughter. It's really cute.
     
  6. Joe

    Joe New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, I'll look forward to it :)
     
  7. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe that consistent Bible interpretation would show that figures like the 'rod' are both figurative and literal. This is often true of figures in the Bible.
    The rod is the most effective tool for training. However, if the child is wise, then soon a look, even across a crowded room, will be enough of a 'rod' to correct the child. But this is not because the child naturally avoids physical pain, rather that the look reminds the child of the potential pain of the rod. If the rod is administered correctly, by teenage years, the child will be motivated by love, and not fear. Then, risk of dissapointment is that figurative 'rod' that will punish that child mentally if he disobeys.
     
  8. Joe

    Joe New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi Rubato
    I disagree that "the rod" (if you are speaking of striking a child with an object) is the most effective tool for training.

    I bolded your words above.

    Striking a child with a foreign object to hurt them should be the very very last resort, if used at all.
     
    #48 Joe, Jan 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2008
  9. Rubato 1

    Rubato 1 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ah, but it is not to hurt (if I'm understanding the term 'foreign object'). It is to help. If you do not believe that spanking should be a normal part of a child's discipline, I have a hard time seeing how you could take the Bible literally.
    Besides the Bible, corporal punishment has been a part of normal society for 4000 years--only in the last 50 years have we grown 'wise' enough to know that it is bad for a child, not good...

    I bolded your words, 'to hurt.'
     
  10. KJVkid

    KJVkid New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Striking a child with a foreign object to hurt them should be the very very last resort, if used at all.:praying:

    I suppose you are a, "go to your room till you behave yourself" parent.

    No sir........the "rod" is Gods way and is the FIRST choice!
     
  11. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    2
    You must be a work of art as a parent.
     
  12. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    1
    Well put!!!
    I know until my mother died at 93 or my father died at 61, I didn't want to do anything to disappoint them. They used shall we say the rod on me, but I don't ever recall it after 9 or 10 years of age,( keep in mind that was back in the 40's and 50's) shall we say I became a wiser child.
    My coaches in HS and collage would use a type of discipline, like run for an hour or so or do a 100 or so push up or be the bull in the bull in the ring, I all so became a little wise.
    As a preacher friend of mine told me when I ask him back in the 60's, why he didn't do more teaching on how to bring up your children, he said, lets see how mine turn out when they are in their 30's, 40's and 50's. He said lets see if they live for Christ or self. He said mine could turn out like Billy Sundays or worst.
    I have been blessed up till now, I have 3 children from 43 down to 12 and no problems with them up till this point, much time is left to see with the 12 year old but she has been brought up the same as the older two and I haven't had to spank her after about age 5.
     
    #52 Bob Alkire, Feb 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2008
  13. KJVkid

    KJVkid New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    You must be a work of art as a parent.by saturneptune

    Why do I feel like Charlie Brown......."why is everybody always"...well it doesn't matter.

    Lets see, Pro 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him How many ways can we twist this verse?

    Rod: shay'-bet
    From an unused root probably meaning to branch off; a scion, that is, (literally) a stick (for punishing,)


    You know what bud, since you questioned my parental ability.......let me make an observation about you. I have an idea, (this is my own opinion) that if we knew your kids, it wouldn't take us long to see that you didn't use the rod!
     
  14. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    2
    Since you believe the apex of raising a child is to make one black and blue, my guess is my kids turned out much better than yours.
     
    #54 saturneptune, Feb 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2008
  15. KJVkid

    KJVkid New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since your middle name is in Prov 22:15, my guess is that my parenting skills far exceed yours. Since you believe the apex of raising a child is to make one black and blue, my guess is my kids turned out much better than yours.by saturneptune

    My middle name isnt Prov. 22:15, you must have me mixed up with somebody else :flower: ......as far as your kids are concerned, That's great!!
     
  16. Sopranette

    Sopranette New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,828
    Likes Received:
    0
    And that's another report.

    Sopranette
     
  17. KJVkid

    KJVkid New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    ..............oh by the way saturneptune the apex of our parenting skill is trusting God and bringing up our kids His way.........so far it's worked. (see previous posts)
     
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,285
    Likes Received:
    507
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Man, if I had a rod for rude and unruly posters . . :BangHead:
     
  19. KJVkid

    KJVkid New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    134
    Likes Received:
    0
    And that's another report. by
    Sopranette

    Honey............people like you really make it tough on a fellow like me to keep my composure!

    We had a "MENS" prayer breakfast this morning at our church. There is non loving KJV mocked Baptist preacher cried and prayed with a brother whose wife has bone marrow cancer. During prayer we found out another fellow had a daughter leave her baby and run away from home and yet another found out his 15 year old daughter is pregnant. That is not yet half of it. There is many more problems due to lack of parental responsibility. MOST of it is due to weak kneed spineless parents that don't have the guts of a snail. These are the ones against the Scriptural teaching of discipline!

    The only thing I can do as pastor is PREACH PRAY AND PREACH! Then I sit back and watch the world through the TV and internet and parents that are more concerned with materialism then raising their family for GOD!

    You want to report me, go for it. I'll take a half of a baby aspirin to get over it.
     
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    I think it's the whole thing of just not disciplining at all that's causing problems - not just the lack of the rod. I know parents who have never spanked their kids (they came from an abusive background and found that they needed to forgo spanking because of the great possibility of them resorting to abuse) and their kids were very well mannered and disciplined because the parents were on top of them and had the goal of raising Godly children. I also know very well many children who are absolute terrors and their parents spank - but they do it without guidance, control and wisdom.

    I have 4 children - 3 girls ages 5, 15 and soon to be 18 and a boy who's 7. 3 of my children have hardly ever been spanked - for the 2 younger, it's definitely less than 10 times each. However, my 15 year old was the kind of kid where I went crying to my husband one night that I was afraid I was abusing her because I was spanking her every few minutes. But she was the kind of kid who would be defiantly disobedient (glaringly so) and would get spanked - then go right back and do it again watching me to see what I'd do. My husband came up with a term for the two of us - the unstoppable force (my 15 year old) vs. the immovable object (me). That's her personality. But you know what? At 15, she's an amazing kid and I'm so proud of her. The other 3 are absolutely wonderful too and DH and I were just talking last night about how well behaved they are in pretty much all circumstances (of course they're all still a work in progress but they're well on their way).

    The key with our children has been to be with them, love them, guide them, teach them and when necessary, discipline them. Spanking is not my first tool nor is it my last tool. It's one of the tools that I'll use when it's needed but oftentimes other forms of discipline will work just as well or better. I don't think using the rod will guarantee that the child will turn out perfect - it's the heart of the parent reaching the heart of the child and a rod will not do that on it's own.
     
Loading...