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Featured The Sabbath Law

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    My point exactly! There are no human calendars between Genesis 2 and Exodus 16. There is no command that the Sabbath is the seventh day "of the week." Your interpretation that restricts it to such violates God's own application and use of the Sabbath Law.

    None of you (Bob Ryan or GE) have explained how your restricted Saturdarain interpretation can harmonize with God's own use and application of the Sabbath Law to FIXED DATE Sabbaths in Lev. 23 or prolonged Sabbaths (month, year, 50th) Sabbaths in Lev. 25. You can't answer because your interpretation is WRONG!
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    God himself points out the day to mankind in Gen 2:3 - according to your own Baptist Confession of Faith.

    And does it "again" in Exodus 16 - even by your own admission.



    Until you actually read the 4th commandment and see that your assumption is wrong.

    It does not get any easier than this.

    The 4th Commandment has the explicit language of the 7th day - not the first day -- in the command itself.

    Read it. (It just does not get any easier than this. And I am certain you have a couple of your fellow Baptists dumbfounded that you would imagine that there is no reference to the 7th day in the 4th commandment.)

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    You are not supposed to repeat posts on other threads bob! I have already answered this post on another thread.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    you repeated your bogus statement - here - so the same Bible answer applies.

    Possibly your game did not serve you the way you had at first imagined.

    You have far too many threads started by you on the subject of the Sabbath and the law with the same debunked arguments presented in each - to start insisting that the Bible texts that so fully refute your assumptions must not be referenced in more than one of your many threads on the subject.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Bob you can complain all you like but the Biblical evidence below repudiates your interpretation of the Sabbath Law:


    1. The Sabbath Law does not RESTRICT the Sabbath to the seventh day "of the week"

    2. The Sabbath law CANNOT be restricted to the Seventh day "of the week" or else God would be condemned as violating it, as he applies it to FIXED DATES and other days of the week. He applies it to other periods than 24 hours - Lev. 23-25.

    3. Hence, the proper interpretation of the Sabbath Law must be BROAD enough to incorporate all APPLICATIONS by God Himself. This denies, repudiates any RESTRICTION of the Sabbath Law to the seventh day "of the week.

    4. However, application to the seventh day "of the week" does not violate the Sabbath Law as it is BROAD enough to INCLUDE that application.

    5. The "week" is a by product of the seven Creation days and our division into weeks must be derived from these seven days at the beginning BECAUSE neither the lunar or solar year is divisble by seven and so the only explanation for divisions into "weeks" is the creation seven days.

    6. There had to be a practical weekly application of the Sabbath that was consistent prior to the cross and all evidence points to the fact that at least among the Jews the weekly sabbath was their seventh day "of the week" or Saturday.

    7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)

    8. The first day "of the week" Christian Sabbath is the "Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) and commemorates a greater and better work than the original but now sin cursed creation - the work of redemption and a new sinless heaven and earth yet to come. This is preciselywhy in all the Sabbath days that charaterize the Messianic Feasts in Leviticus 23 such days fall on the 1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd, 50th day (after 7 regular sabbaths or 49 days) 50th year (after 7 regular Sabbath years or 49 years).

    9. All Mosaic Sabbatical laws have been abolished (Col. 2:16) and the "Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10) is a day set apart for the Lord's House, to observe the Lord's Supper and the Lord's Worship, and is thus a day or rejoicing and gladness as a testimony of Christ's resurrection to the world - Psa. 118:24.

    10. It is the common day of worship from the first century until Constantine and Constantine did not invent it but simply followed the common practice and made it a STATE holiday as he made Catholicism a STATE church.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You are gaming the text when you try this on Exodus 20:8-11 because there - in that special case God DOES restrict the application to the 7th day.

    Impossible to ignore.

    You are attempting an either-or logical fallacy -- it does not work.

    God creates a specific Seventh day Sabbath in Gen 2:3 according to the Baptist Confession of Faith and Ex 20:8-11 - AND HE ALSO creates annual Sabbaths in Lev 23.

    Both-AND.

    Not either-OR logical fallacy.


    Straw man - logical fallacy.

    The argument was never "The fourth commandment is real Sabbath - but the Lev 23 annual Sabbaths are fake or illegit".

    You are grasping at the wind in that either-or fallacy.

    You finally reach a point that is true. Credit where credit is due - on that part.




    A. It is never said to be a common day of worship in the first century by any Bible author.

    I think we both know that.

    B. There is no support in the NT or in the Baptist Confession of Faith that the 4th commandment was abolished or the Ten Commandments abolished.

    I think we both know that.

    C. There is no statement in all of the NT that "First day of the week is the Lord's Day" - but there is the Is 58:13 and Mark 2:27 making Sabbath the Lord's Day.

    So you make up the statement by quoting yourself.

    D. And there is not one text of scripture that makes your statement that "God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week"".

    So you make up the statement - and quote yourself.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    First the fact is there is no "OF THE WEEK" found in the Sabbath Law - that is a fact you cannot deny BUT you demand it be read into the law anyway.

    Second, God's application of the Sabbath Law must be consistent with God's understanding of the Sabbath Law or else the law is violated by God Himself. The law is consistent if "of the week" is acknowledge not to be part of that law and it is not! Hence, the Law can include application to a FIXED DATE Sabbath as much as it can include application to a specific day "of the week" Sabbath without contradiction but NO SO if you restrict the law's meaning and application to the seven day "of the week."

    You are the one promoting the either/or while I am promoting BOTH EQUALLY consistent with the Sabbath Law.





    That is your IMAGINARY argument. They are BOTH legit because the Sabbath Law's meaning INCLUDES both without restriction to either one just as it is broadly inclusive in meaning to include YEAR long Sabbaths or 50th year Sabbaths or what could only be in a calander month the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK Sabbaths (1st, 8th, 15th, 22nd) just as the
    50th year Sabbath is the First year of the week of years.

    All the Messianic Feasts emphasis a NEW Sabbath that is not the seventh day "of the week" Sabbath and cannot be.






    yes it is - Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11; Rev. 1:10; Heb. 4:9-10; etc.



    Who said the fourth commandment or any of the ten commandments were Abolished? I did not! I said the MOSAIC ADMINISTRATION of the law was abolished (Col. 2:16). The Baptist confessions predate the Ten commandments BEFORE Moses and you know that.



    Psalm 118:24 with Acts 4:10-11 with Heb. 4:9-10 with Rev. 1:10 with 1 Cor. 16:1-2 with Mark 16:9 etc.



    Psalm 118:24/Acts 4:10-11; Mk. 16:9; Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7, etc.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    You are gaming the text when you try this on Exodus 20:8-11 because there - in that special case God DOES restrict the application to the 7th day.

    Impossible to ignore.

    You are attempting an either-or logical fallacy -- it does not work.

    God creates a specific Seventh day Sabbath in Gen 2:3 according to the Baptist Confession of Faith and Ex 20:8-11 - AND HE ALSO creates annual Sabbaths in Lev 23.

    Both-AND.

    Not either-OR logical fallacy.



    My statement above is specifically about the 4th commandment. A detail you try to skim over in your efforts to game the point.

    And then of course - you have your own post debunking your claims that the 4th commandment is not specific to the seventh day of the week.
    ================================
    QUOTE=The Biblicist;

    5. The "week" is a by product of the seven Creation days and our division into weeks must be derived from these seven days at the beginning BECAUSE neither the lunar or solar year is divisble by seven and so the only explanation for divisions into "weeks" is the creation seven days.

    6. There had to be a practical weekly application of the Sabbath that was consistent prior to the cross and all evidence points to the fact that at least among the Jews the weekly sabbath was their seventh day "of the week" or Saturday.

    7. God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week" (Psa. 118:24/Acts 4:10-11/Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; Acts 2:1; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; John 20)


    [FONT=&quot]http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2008264&postcount=108 [/FONT]

    ===============================


    You shot your own argument in the foot -- "again".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    A. It is never said to be a common day of worship in the first century by any Bible author.


    Once again you wisely - "quote nothing" even in your own reference.

    What sly gaming that is.

    Not one single reference to "week day 1" as a "common day of worship" in any text that you gave - not in Ps 118 not in all of Acts 4, not in all of Rev 1, not in all of Heb 4.

    No weekly cycles at all in those chapters much less single verses - that even mentions week-day-1.

    How sad for your argument at that point.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #29 BobRyan, Jul 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2013
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    C. There is no statement in all of the NT that "First day of the week is the Lord's Day" - but there is the Is 58:13 and Mark 2:27 making Sabbath the Lord's Day.




    Once again you wisely - "quote nothing" even in your own reference.

    What sly gaming that is.

    Not one single reference to "week day 1 is the Lord's day" in any text that you gave - not in Ps 118 not in all of Acts 4, not in all of Rev 1, not in all of Heb 4.

    No weekly cycles at all in those chapters much less single verses - that even mentions week-day-1.

    How sad for your argument at that point.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #30 BobRyan, Jul 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2013
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    D. And there is not one text of scripture that makes your statement that "God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week"".


    Once again you wisely - "quote nothing" even in your own reference.

    What sly gaming that is.

    Not one single reference to "week day 1" as the day for the 4th commandment

    - not in Ps 118 not in all of Acts 4, not in all of Rev 1, not in all of Heb 4 no mention at all of Sabbath in 1Cor 16 no mention of Sabbath being on week day 1 in any of the texts -- "again".


    How sad for your argument at that point.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    So you want quotation, interpetations and substance? Ok!

    This is the day which the Lord hath made: we will rejoice and be glad in it – Psa. 118:24

    Not only does the Old Testament provide a precedence in a shift from the seventh day Sabbath under the “old” covenant to a first day Sabbath under the “new” covenant in the very nature of the Sabbath law, in the Messianic Feast Sabbaths, Deuteronical Messianic type Sabbath, but also in the Messianic prophecy of the Old Testament.
    Psalms 118:20-24 is clearly Messianic in nature and predicts the establishment of the first day of the week Sabbath as a memorial by God to commemorate the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
    For example, in verses 20-21 the very subject is the “gate” of salvation:
    This gate of the Lord, into which the righteous will enter, I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation – vv. 20-21

    This “gate” is identified as “thou” or as stated in the New Testament “I am the door.”
    The next two verses describe how the Lord became his salvation. Psalm 118:22-23 is directly quoted in the New Testament five times. In all five times it is directly applied to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Mt. 21:42; Mk. 12:10; Lk. 21:17; Acts 4:10-11, 1 Pet. 2:7). Hence, there is no question it is a Messianic prophecy and directly applied to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
    In Psalm 118:22 we have the phrase “the stone which the builders rejected” which is interpreted by Christ to refer to his own death at the hands of the religious leaders of Israel. In the parable of the vineyard this is directly applied to the slaying of the only son of the Master of the vineyard (Mt. 21:42; Mk. 12:10; Lk. 21:17).
    In Psalm 118:22-23 the phrases “become the head of the corner” and “this is the Lord’s doing” describes God’s response to the rejection and slaying of His Son by Israel.
    They rejected him by killing him but God vindicated and established him by raising him up from the grave.

    Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
    This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. – Acts 4:10-12

    However, this was not the only predicted response by God to their rejection and slaying of his Son. Not only is the resurrection “is the Lord’s doing” but “this is the day the nLord hath made and we will rejoice and be glad in it.”
    The Hebrew term translated “made” is the very same Hebrew term used in the Deuteronical redemptive account of the fourth commandment that is translated “keep the Sabbath.” Therefore, Psalm 118:24 “is the day the Lord hath made to be observed” is the idea not only conveyed by this term but by the remaining words of this verse. The remaining words provide a description of how it is to be observed – “we will rejoice and be glad in it.”
    David is predicting that the resurrection is the Lord’s doing as well as the establishment of the resurrection day as a Sabbath to be observed. The message of the Psalmist is that the significance of this “day” is what the Lord did on this day.
    The seventh day Sabbath is a “sign” under the “old” covenant of Law without Christ that commemorates the old creation defiled by sin.
    The first day Sabbath is a sign under the “new” covenant as a cause of rejoicing and gladness inclusive of Christ’s redemption of fallen man from sin and writing of the law upon the hearts of men looking forward to an eighth day millennium or eternal Jubilee in a sinless heaven and earth.
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. – Heb. 4:9

    Possibly the greatest passage in the New Testament that expresses this change of Sabbath day from the “old” covenant to the “new” covenant Sabbath is Hebrews 4:1-11.
    The writer of Hebrews strikes a theme from the very first chapter that things under the “new” covenant are “better” than what they had under the “old” covenant and this is true of the Sabbath Day observance.
    The former Jewish seventh day of the week Sabbath under the “old” covenant administration commemorates has a past and forward reference. In regard to the past it commemorates what is now a flawed creation. In regard to the future it anticipates the coming of Christ when the kings and kingdoms of this present age enter into the final and complete history of this flawed creation or the millennial reign of Christ on this earth. However, all this will pass away.
    In contrast, the Christian first day of the week Sabbath under the “new” covenant administration also has a past and forward reference which is far better. In regard to the past it commemorates the greater work of redemption signified by His resurrection. In regard to the future, it anticipates a new heaven and a new earth or an eternal eighth day that sin will never enter or defile. It is superior to the “old” covenant Sabbath day in regard to what it commemorates in the past, as well as, what it anticipates in the future.
    Both the “old” covenant Sabbath and the “new” covenant Sabbath anticipate spiritual rest in the gospel by faith, as the gospel was preached, and entered by faith under both covenants (See Acts 10:43; 26:22-23; Rom. 10:16; Heb. 4:2; etc.).
    Many Christians believe the Sabbath has been abolished, and replaced by spiritual “rest” in Jesus Christ.They often refer to this same passage.
    However, these sincere believers place a limitation on this passage that the passage does not teach.
    We admit that “spiritual” rest in Christ is a partial fulfillment of the Sabbath law under both covenants. What some fail to understand is that the Sabbath law is not completely fulfilled by mere “spiritual” rest, but points to a complete rest inclusive of spirit, soul and body in a sinless new creation yet to come.
    For example, the Old Testament saints believed in the same gospel as we do and entered the same “spiritual” rest by faith and yet observed the Sabbath day:
    For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest
    .
    - Heb. 4:2-5

    He is referring to those who fell in the wilderness under Moses (Heb. 3:8-10). However, not all fell in the wilderness. Not all rejected the gospel. Faith was mixed in the heart of some and we have Hebrews chapter eleven to prove it, as well as, passages like Acts 10:43.

    To him give all the prophets witness that whosoever believeth upon his name shall receive remission of sins – Acts 10:43

    What is his point? Notice where he begins. He begins with Moses under the “old” covenant in contrast to Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1-5). Those who embraced the gospel by faith entered into the “rest” of the creation Sabbath. The creation Sabbath commemorated a “rest” characterized by sinlessness. The Creation Sabbath remembers a sinless creation and sinless man in harmony with God. The gospel provided spiritual rest for sinners as it provided remission of sins (Acts 10:43) and reconciled man with God once again.
    However, the creation Sabbath is not fulfilled until all the elect are brought to faith in the gospel and all enter into that spiritual rest:

    Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: - Heb. 4:6

    However, here is where the spiritual rest view fails. Those who did enter spiritual rest in the Old Testament by receiving the gospel continued to observe the Sabbath day. Why? They continued to observe it because mere spiritual rest does not completely fulfill what the creation Sabbath commemorates. The creation Sabbath commemorates a rest inclusive of the spirit, soul and body, in addition to, a still yet future whole creation that is entirely sinless.
    Therefore, the writer of Hebrews argues that the creation Sabbath was not fulfilled yet for even after Moses, David says:

    Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. – Heb. 4:7

    David was the ultimate type of Christ ruling as King in the Promised Land. However, just like David was a type of Christ, and the promised land was a type of the promised rest, the Sabbath day is a type of complete rest spirit soul and body in a sinless new earth – none of which has yet been fulfilled completely. The first step of completion is to enter it spiritually by faith in the gospel but that first step does not completely fulfill the Sabbath and that is why believers prior to the cross still observed a Sabbath day and that is why believers after the cross will continue to observe a Sabbath day.
    Joshua bringing them into the land of Palestine was merely another type that did not fulfill the Sabbath observance:

    For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. – Heb. 4:8

    The reference here is to Joshua as the Old Testament term “Joshua” in Greek is “Jesus.” As long as the Sabbath “rest” of sinless man in a sinless creation with God is unfulfilled:

    There remains therefore a rest to the people of God. – Heb. 4:9

    The terms “a rest” here translate a noun (Gr. sabbatimos) that literally means “A Sabbath day observance.” In the previous verses the word “rest” represents a completely different Greek term (Gr. pauo).
    As long as we are between the first sinless creation and the second sinless creation there remains a Sabbath day to observe because nothing in between completely fulfills the Sabbath Day. In between these two sinless creations we can enter initially through faith and enjoy spiritual rest. However, the cross and redemptive work of Jesus Christ is fulfilled in a completed rest in a new heaven and earth wherein man enters not merely in spirit, but in soul and body:

    For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his. – Heb. 4:10

    There is one man who has entered into this rest spirit, soul and body and that is Jesus Christ (v. 14) as the “firstfruit” of the resurrection. However, that is yet future for believers:

    Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. – Heb. 4:11

    “That rest” does not refer to spiritual rest by faith but the rest already entered by that singular person in verse 10. This is a rest that includes our whole person, spirit, soul and body.
    However, look again at verse 10. Jesus Christ ceased from his own works (His works is the basis for our redemption) just as God ceased from his works of creation. How did God cease from His works of Creation?

    For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. – Heb. 4:4

    Jesus rested from his work of redemption by setting apart a Sabbath day to commemorate his work, just as the Psalmist predicted (Psa. 118:24), and just as predicted in the types of the Messianic Feast Sabbaths. That is why there remains “a Sabbath Day observance for the people of God” because Christ ceased from His works just as God did from his.
    The New Testament calls this Sabbath day “The Lord’s Day” (Rev. 1:10) and “the first day of the week.” It is not a Sabbath under the “old” covenant restrictions, and laws, but the new and better Sabbath is characterized by the words of the Psalmist - “we will rejoice and be glad in it.” It is a Sabbath centered on worship, fellowship, family and rest from our labors in the past six days.
     
  14. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, - Rev. 1:10

    There is a special Greek term translated “Lord’s” in Revelation 1:10 that is found only one other time in the New Testament and that is in 1 Cor. 11:20. In 1 Cor. 11:20 it is translated “the Lord’s Supper.”
    Some have attempted to interpret Revelation 1:10 and the words “the Lord’s day” to refer to the eschatological “day of the Lord.” However, that is impossible as this eschatological phrase never varies from “e hemera kuriou” when translated into Greek (1 Thes. 5:2) whereas Revelation 1:10 is “te Kurike hemera.”
    Second, the terms “kuriake hemera” were well known in the first century as it was used throughout the Roman world to describe the observation of Caesar worship on the first Sunday of the month. On that day the citizens of the Roman Empire were expected to offer up a pinch of incense unto Caesar and say “Caesar is Lord.” Caesar received worship as the god/man.
    No doubt, John was exiled on the island of Patmos for refusal to offer up that pinch of incense on Sunday and proclaim “Caesar is Lord.” The island of Patmos was a prisoner island for political prisoners. Christians were viewed by Rome as devoted to another king other than Caesar.
    Both John and Paul took this term and applied it to the proper worship of Jesus Christ as Lord. Paul denied that the observance of the Supper by the Corinthians was the “Lord’s” or “kuriake” Supper, or a supper that was observed as prescribed by the true God man (1 Cor. 11:20).
    John defined the first day of the week – Sunday – as “the Lord’s Day” or the day belonging to the Lord, and to be observed as instructed by the Lord.
    Albert Barnes says in his commentary on Revelation 1:10 and this phrase “the Lord’s day”:

    (1) that this refers to some day which was distinguished from all other days of the week, and which would be sufficiently designated by the use of this term.

    (2.) That it was a day which was for some reason regarded as peculiarly a day of the Lord, or peculiarly devoted to him.

    (3.) It would further appear that this was a day particularly devoted to the Lord Jesus, for

    (a) that is the natural meaning of the word Lord as used in the New Testament, (compare Barnes on "Ac 1:24") and

    (b) if the Jewish Sabbath were intended to be designated, the word Sabbath would have been used. The term was used generally by the early Christians to denote the first day of the week. It occurs twice in the Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, (about A.D. 101,) who calls the Lord’s day "the queen and prince of all days." Chrysostom (on Psalms 119) says, "It was called the Lord’s day because the Lord rose from the dead on that day." Later fathers make a marked distinction between the Sabbath and the Lord’s day; meaning by the former, the Jewish Sabbath, or the seventh day of the week, and by the latter, the first day of the week kept holy by Christians. So Theodoret, (Fab. Haeret. ii. 1,) speaking of the Ebionites, says, "They keep the Sabbath according to the Jewish law, and sanctify the Lord’s day in like manner as we do." — Professor Stuart. The strong probability is, that the name was given to this day in honour of the Lord Jesus, and because he rose on that day from the dead. No one can doubt that it was an appellation given to the first day of the week, and the passage therefore proves

    (1) that that day was thus early distinguished in some peculiar manner, so that the mere mention of it would be sufficient to identify it in the minds of those to whom the apostle wrote;

    (2) that it was in some sense regarded as devoted to the Lord Jesus, or was designed in some way to commemorate what he had done; and

    (3) that if this book were written by the apostle John, the observance of that day has the apostolic sanction. He had manifestly, in accordance with a prevailing custom, set apart this day in honour of the Lord Jesus. Though alone, he was engaged on that day in acts of devotion. Though far away from the sanctuary, he enjoyed what all Christians hope to enjoy on such a day of rest, and what not a few do in fact enjoy in its observance. – Albert Barnes – New Testament Commentary, “Rev. 1:10”.

    There is strong historical support among early Christian writings that the phrase “the Lord’s Day” did not refer to any eschatological “day of the Lord” but was understood and applied to the celebration of the resurrection day of Christ.
    1. Ignatius pastor of Antioch and companion of the Apostles in about A.D. 70 says,

    And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ… Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James Editors, The Ante-Nicene Father’s, “Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians” Vol. I, p. 63

    2. Theopelus in A.D. 167 says,

    Both custom and reason challenge from us that we should honor the Lord’s Day, seeing it was in that day, our Lord Jesus Christ, completed His resurrection from the dead.


    3. Dionysisus in A.D. 170 says,

    We passed this holy Lord’s day in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.


    4. Dynidions in A.D. 170 says,

    We celebrate only the Lord’s Day


    5. Clement a Christian in A.D. 192 says that a Christian:

    According to the commandment of the Gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection


    6. Clement of Alexandria in A.D. 194 says,

    He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.


    7. Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says,

    The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath is the Lord’s Day.
    8. The Apostolic Constitutions written about 250 A.D. says,

    On the day of our Lord’s resurrection, which is the Lord’s Day, meet more diligently.


    9. Anatolius in about A.D. 250 says,

    The solemn festival of the resurrection of the Lord can only be celebrated only on the Lord’s Day.


    10. Anatolius, Bishop of Laodicea in Asia Minor in about A.D. 270 says,

    On regard for the Lord’s resurrection which took place on the Lord’s Day will lead us to celebrate it.

    11. Peter Bishop of Alexanderia in Egypt about A.D. 306 says,

    But the Lord’s Day we celebrate as a day of joy because on it he rose from the dead.

    Notice that these dates are not that far apart and these quotes come from all parts of the Roman Empire.
    Often we hear that every day is the Lord’s and no day is any different than any other day. However, if that is true, then the words “the Lord’s Day” are not true and make no sense. John called one day of the week “the Lord’s day.” David said “this is the day the Lord hath made” using the singular “day” not “days.” God did not raise up Jesus Christ on every day of the week.
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun……. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.– Mk. 16:1-2,9

    The Jewish Sabbath was concluded Saturday evening at 6 p.m. These women purchased and “prepared” the spices (Lk. 24:1) most likely after 6 p.m. Saturday evening and then “early” (Greek proii) the next morning between 3 a.m and 6 a.m. came to the tomb. The Greek term proii translated “early” is the same term used in Mark by Jesus for the fourth watch of the night between 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. (Mk. 13:35 “in the morning” Gr. proii). They arrived Sunday morning at the grave “at the rising of the Sun” while it was yet still dark (Jn. 20:1).
    Mark 16:1-2 make it clear that the “first day of the week” was the day following the Jewish Sabbath. Mark 16:9 makes it clear that the first day of the week is the first Christian Sabbath.
    The point made in Mark 16:2, 9 is recognized only from the Greek text. In both verses the same phrase “the first day of the week” is found but the Greek text in verse 9 reads differently than in verse 2.
    In Mark 16:2 the Greek term for “first” is mia while the Greek term for “day of the week” is the plural Sabbaton. The Greek term mia is the normal numerical for “first.” The plural Sabbaton is the normal way to designate any day between two Sabbaths and that is why it is plural. Sunday would be the “first” day between Sabbaths, while Monday would be the second day between Sabbaths, or Second day of the week, etc.
    However, in Mark 16:9 the Greek term for “first” is prote while the Greek term for “day of the week” is the singular sabbatou. The term prote refers to the first in a new series of things, while the singular sabbatou is the normal term to designate the Sabbath of the fourth commandment.
    Mark is saying that the “first day of the week” is not the Jewish Sabbath (vv. 1-2) but is the first Sabbath in a new series of Sabbaths.
    In A.D. 192 a Christian named Clement defined Christians as those who -

    According to the commandment of the gospel, observes the Lord’s Day, thereby glorifying the resurrection.

    Clement of Alexandria in A.D. 194 says,

    He, in fulfillment of the precept, according to the gospel, keeps the Lord’s Day, glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself.

    Only the Gospel of Mark designates the first day of the week as the first Sabbath in a new series of Sabbaths. As such, Mark 16:9 could be referred to as “the commandment of the Gospel.”
     
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    God's Sabbath is not from 6pm to 6pm - but from "evening unto evening" according to Lev 23. So step one - is define your doctrines "Sola scriptura" not sola-harold-camping-ite.

    There is no "week day 1 is the Lord's day" in All of Rev 1 - much less in Rev 1:10.

    And we both know it.

    And your own sources show that "week day 1" is in fact "AFTER the Sabbath" as admitted even by your ECF sources.

    =========================================================
    Ignatius pastor of Antioch and companion of the Apostles in about A.D. 70 says, (Writing about 100-118 AD)

    And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ… Roberts, Alexander and Donaldson, James Editors, The Ante-Nicene Father’s, “Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians” Vol. I, p. 63
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=2008344#post2008344

    Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage in A.D. 250 says,

    The eighth day, that is, the first day after the Sabbath is the Lord’s Day.
    [FONT=&quot]http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=87193&page=12[/FONT]

    =====================

    I cannot be blamed because your own posts debunk your own assertions.

    Since you appear to abandon scripture and appeal primarily to extra-biblical sources to make your case that week-day-1 is the Lord's day - I will grant you this - man made tradition does ride out against the Word of God - as Christ declared in Mark 7:6-13. And you are finding a good case for that idea.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    D. And there is not one text of scripture that makes your statement that "God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week"".

    Once again you wisely - "quote nothing" even in your own reference.

    What sly gaming that is.

    Not one single reference to "week day 1" as the day for the 4th commandment

    - not in Ps 118 not in all of Acts 4, not in all of Rev 1, not in all of Heb 4 no mention at all of Sabbath in 1Cor 16 no mention of Sabbath being on week day 1 in any of the texts -- "again".


    How sad for your argument at that point.


    ==================================



    But no skimming and glossing over details that are inconvenient to your proofs.

    For example the statement is made -
    there is not one text of scripture that makes your statement that "God changed the weekly day of Sabbath keeping from the Jewish seventh day "of the week" to the Christian resurrection day or "first day of the week"".

    And you give the supposed non-quote reference list -

    Psalm 118:24/Acts 4:10-11; Mk. 16:9; Heb. 4:9-10; Rev. 1:10; 1 Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7, etc

    as the failing answer. Nothing at all quoted to make your case.

    ========================

    A good example of no week-day-1 reference at all in the entire chapter!

    A good example of trying to eisegete a first-day observance going all the way back to David - and finding no historians that will support you on that wild goose chase.

    A good example of a quote that says nothing at all in support of your claim for it.

    No reference at all in Ps 118 of week day 1.

    No reference at all in Ps 118 of the New Covenant changing the 4th commandment sabbath to week-day-1.

    You are still "Quoting you" in this reference to Ps 118 when you want it to actually make your point

    so you - "move on". (How 'unexpected')

    Not one word in Ps 118 about changing the 4th commandment to week-day-1 in honor of week-day-1 resurrection day.

    Not a word.

    Not one word in Ps 118 about changing the 4th commandment to week-day-1 in honor of week-day-1 resurrection day.

    Not a word about the New Covenant editing to the day of worship.

    Not one word in Ps 118 about changing the 4th commandment to week-day-1 in honor of week-day-1 resurrection day.

    Not a word about the New Covenant editing to the day of worship.

    Christ died on Friday - not week-day-1

    And still nothing in Ps 118 about switching the 4th commandment to apply to week-day-6 either.

    No not one word.

    Christ is slain on Friday - week-day-6.

    And still nothing in Ps 118 about switching the 4th commandment to apply to week-day-6 either.

    No not one word.


    Not one statement in Acts 4 about "week day 1" - rather it is a focus on all the days - after the cross.

    (Note how strained this twisted and tortured logic that tries to turn Ps 118 into "so start honoring week-day-1 as the 4th commandment Sabbath instead of what God actually said" into the text.)

    Now compare that eisegetical tortured logic above that must bend-and-wrench Ps 118 -- and contrast it to the direct and straight forward "REMEMBER the Sabbath to keep it holy... for in SIX days the Lord MADE... and Rested the SEVENTH day therefore the Lord BLESSED the Sabbath day and MADE IT Holy".

    No bending, no wrenching, no eisegesis because the word of God is clear and explicit IN THE TEXT.



    Your eisegesis at that point is beyond belief trying cram "so stop keeping the 4th commandment as God gave it - into David's text in Ps 118".

    The fact that no such instruction or change took place in Ps 118 and not a single reference to "week day 1 being the new day for Sabbath" or even "The Lord's day" - not one word of it in Acts 4 or Ps 118.

    Here then is eisegesis - buried deep into the text trying to wrench it to say what it can never be bent to say.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #37 BobRyan, Jul 10, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2013
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    The Jewish Sabbath was concluded sundown ‘Saturday’.

    ‘Saturday evening’ it already is the First Day of the week, “while being early darkness still” John 20:1.

    <<These women purchased and “prepared” the spices (Lk. 24:1) most likely after 6 p.m.>>

    Two Scriptures apply but you pretend it’s only one---the WRONG one---, <(Lk. 24:1)>.

    <These women> were not, <These women>. You deliberately mislead with saying <These women>. The women who <“prepared” the spices> were TWO, “Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary” read of, having been present at Jesus’ funeral ON [“the Preparation afternoon inclining towards the Sabbath” Luke 23:54].

    The women who “bought” spices were the two Marys “and Salome” --- three women. And they “bought after the Sabbath was over”--- not before “the Sabbath … the women began to rest on according to the [Fourth] Commandment”, but after it ---which was on <‘Saturday evening’ >.

    Even the spices were DIFFERENT spices.

    ‘Sunday’ according to Mark 16:2 … not 16:1, <<the next morning between 3 a.m and 6 a.m. [women] came to the tomb>>.
    It was “VERY” <<“early” (Greek proii)>> ‘lian prohï’ “before sunrise”, ‘anateilantos tou hehliou’ --- the exact opposite of John 20:1, ‘prohï skotias eti ousehs’, “still being early-dark”—after sundown.

    So, correct, unidentified women ---it could have been the THREE, <<… arrived Sunday morning at the grave “at the rising of the Sun”>> “VERY” <<“early” (Greek proii)>> ‘lian prohï’ “before sunrise”, ‘anateilantos tou hehliou’.

    … but incorrect and very mush UNTRUE … <<while it was yet still dark (Jn. 20:1).>> In John 20:1 it was Mary Magdalene ONLY, who only “seeing the stone away from the tomb, runs back …” and goes tell the disiciples what she saw … from some distance it must have been.

    Yes indeed,
    <<Mark 16:1-2 make it clear that the “first day of the week” was the day following the Jewish Sabbath. Mark 16:9 makes it clear that the first day of the week is the first Christian Sabbath.>>
    AND JUST AS <clear>, does Luke 23:54-56 make it that “the Sabbath according to the [Fourth] Commandment” was the day following “THAT DAY The Preparation while the Sabbath drew near” : “that day was The Preparation … “WHICH (was) THE FORE-SABBATH” Mark 15:42.

    What NONSENSE then to falsely aver NONSENSE, “Mark 16:9 makes it clear that the first day of the week is the first Christian Sabbath” ---NONSENSICAL UNTRUTH!!!!
     
    #38 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 10, 2013
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  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Dear Bob Ryan, I like your posts very much and applaud you for it.

    I liked the way you refuted untruth claims with <no quote> and <no Scripture>.

    Now, dear Bob, where are you quotes and or Scriptures for <<Christ died on Friday>>?


     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Dear Biblicist, find this whole ostensibly learned treatise of yours refuted to redundancy and utter futility, here, http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 5, Second Century.pdf


     
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