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The SBC: S-lowly B-ecoming C-atholic?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ReformedBaptist, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Straw man.

    The point here is that these things are being promoted as necessary.

    Additionally, the meditation being promoted is not biblical meditation.
     
  2. fbcodr

    fbcodr New Member

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    That's not true either. We're in the process of weeding those out the best we can!!!:1_grouphug::applause:
     
  3. fbcodr

    fbcodr New Member

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    AMEN!!! Now that's the best answer yet!!!:applause::thumbs:
     
  4. fbcodr

    fbcodr New Member

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    ME TOO!!!:applause::1_grouphug:
     
  5. fbcodr

    fbcodr New Member

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    Me too, I voted the same!!!:applause::thumbs:
     
  6. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    The straw man argument is equating a person who is meditating, fasting, etc, as summarily engaging in someting unchristian.
    Where in the PDF is that being done?
    The meditation being promoted in the PDF is neither biblically mandated nor biblically abhorred. According to you, we're engaging in the occult whenever we get acupuncture or arrange our furniture using the principles of feng shui. That doesn't give much credence to your claim that one should be wary of meditation, etc. I love you like a sister, but you're off on this one.
     
    #66 Johnv, Dec 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2009
  7. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I never said that. However, it is true that the "meditation" being promoted is not biblical meditation.


    I've made my case for those and there is support for my views. You seem to still be angry about it. Since I've researched these areas and you have not and apparently did not even know what feng shui was, I don't see how what you say has much ammunition. You do not seem to want to accept the facts of what these things are based on, even when I posted quotes from sites that promote these things!!

    Do you know what people promoting this type of meditation are saying it is? Do you know what they say we should do to meditate?
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Your'e made your case, I'll give you that. It's not the evidence I argue. It's your conclusions.
    So, if I don't see it as you, then I must not have known what Feng Shui was. Interesting.
    That's called an ad hominem: something in the PDF must be unscriptural because of something said outside the PDF. You said the aforementioned things are being promoted as necessary, and I asked where in the OP's PDF these things are being promoted as necessary. Where is it? I noted that meditation being promoted in the PDF is neither biblically mandated nor biblically abhorred. So where in the PDF is it citing something occultic? If you can't make your case without looking outside the PDF, then you've lost your argument. If, OTOH, someting in the PDF is shown to be unscriptural, I'll back you up and affirm it as unscriptural.
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    What Feng Shui is is not a matter of opinion; it's a very ancient form of geomancy (a form of divination) from Taoist tradition. My article was a cover story for a magazine. It was based on research.

    T
    I never said anything there was occultic.
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Here is something I believe is unscriptural from the document. It talks about how we need to develop the discipline of silence. This is not biblically supported. I know the verses used to support this - they are always from the OT -- and they are used out of context.

    Aside from that, the doc goes on to say that we can "hear God" with our "soul" in the silence.

    I would like to see NT support of this concept. I'm asking that rhetorically, because there isn't any. I thought that Baptists believed that the Holy Spirit speaks to us primarily through God's word.
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Typically they do with the fringe exception.
     
  12. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    Marcia,
    In Matthew 6:16-18, Jesus took for granted that we would fast.


    Luke 5:33-35


    Old Testament saints practiced it as in Daniel.

    The early church practiced it as in Acts 13 and 14

    1 Corinthians 7:5 talks about the early church practicing fasting in several areas including marriage relations:
    Even if their practices were not commands, Jesus acted as if we were always going to be fasting.
     
  13. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I am very clear on scriptural support for fasting. It's interesting, however, that fasting is not mentioned in any of the epistles that I know of.

    Where in the Bible are we told to practice disciplines in order to be better Christians? I can show you many passages about living the Christian life, and they are based on loving God, obeying Christ, worship, etc. but they are not based on following a certain set of "disciplines" that come from Catholic monastic tradition.
     
  14. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    I think the 1 Corinthians 7 passage is in the epistles. :tongue3:

    I have never said that we do these things to be better Christians. btw, where is the phrase "better Christians" in Scripture?

    The idea of discipline is implicit in the word Jesus used to describe His followers :"Disciple"

    The ones I have mentioned are not from any Catholic monastic tradition, they are mentioned in the Bible long before the Catholics were hatched.

    I have no problem with pointing out the difference between what the Bible says about fasting, prayer, meditation and the wrong teaching of the various monastic guys, but to imply that if we talk about it and mention it, we are somehow tied into them is just wrong.
     
  15. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Have you read Richard Foster's Celebration of Discipline: The Path to Spiritual Growth.
     
  16. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    As I said before, the meditation being taught by Foster (who is mentioned in the doc in the OP) and others like him is not biblical. I also raised some other issues in previous posts which I am too weary to repeat.

    I've been following this trend from the Catholic church into non-Catholic evangelical churches for sometime - since the mid-90s.

    The term "Spiritual Disciplines" is a term from the monastics. Spiritual Director is a role right out of the Catholic church and now some churches are adopting this. Do you want someone who will help you listen to the Holy Spirit and has a "gift" for discerning as to when you are doing so or not? Then you will be glad to have a Spiritual Director.

    My main concerns are the misuse of scripture to support cultivating an interior silence in order to "hear" and be close to God (a la mystics), the unbiblical meditation being taught, the misuse of Ps. 46:10 (which I pointed out with an article I wrote on it a few posts ago), and other similar things. You can trace these right back to the RC church, not to the Bible.

    Re the meditation: Do you believe that if you think of God you can't be close to him? Some of these teachers say that. Do you believe that you must think of a "sacred" word and repeat it? That you need to sit and breathe a certain way in order to pray and "meditate"? That being silent and not thinking is superior to verbal prayer? All of these are taught by many of those promoting the "Disciplines." I trace the line from the Catholic church in one of my articles:
    http://christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_ContemplativePrayer1.html

    It's really too big a topic to take on here.
     
  17. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Yes, and many things there disturbed me and I found were unbiblical.

    In fact, I read his intro in an earlier edition which was later taken out because it was thought to be too New Agey. He actually talked about going out of the body. This is not surprising given his Quaker background and his acceptance of Catholic mysticism. Foster works with and promotes the teachings of Catholic monk Thomas Keating and did work with Basil Pennington before his death. Keating and Pennington both acknowledge Buddhist influence and also openly admire(d) Hindu swamis and gurus. They were very influenced by Catholic Thomas Merton, who admired Buddhism and was hoping to open a Buddhist meditation center in the U.S.

    I wrote about some issues of concern on Foster for my pastor. I also refer to him in the article I posted above.
     
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Whether they practice it or not is irrelevant. The point is they are open to it. You wouldn't have found that if the survey were conducted 30 years earlier.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The results of that survey do not meet your interpretation of them.
     
  20. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    One of the things I have had to learn here is where my hot buttons are, and avoid the threads. Recently I got caught up in the cycle with the Catholic threads, and after a while, the arguments become an exchange of insults.

    One of the subjects that I do not deal with well (and this will be my only post in this thread) is an organized effort the demean, degrade, and belittle the SBC. Despite its problems, God uses the local churches of the SBC to carry out His work.

    Most of all, I am forever thankful to the Lord for saving me. He did that in my life by putting me in a local church that is a SBC member. Our church has none of the practices or habits, or trends expressed in this thread. This church has done nothing but been supportivie of me since salvation. The support, the feeling of fellowship, and their encouragment, have been nothing but edifying, and again, another gift of God.

    I have no problem with trying to improve a situation, or efforts to solve a problem. The case here seems to be to rattle off lots of flaws, with no solution in mind. How can one paint an entire denomination (for lack of a better term) with one brush, when everyone of our churches are autonomous?

    If you have a problem with the seminaries, or the leadership of the SBC, then say so, and make your case clear.

    Statements like Southern Baptist are becoming more "like Catholics" or are "charismatic" solve nothing, are for the most part false, and are not edifying. I deeply resent the attacks on local churches that had such a deep impact on my life.
     
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