The Self-Centered God

God loves us. Do you doubt that?

 

No. Does God believe in us?

 

What do mean? What kind of question is that? Do you mean does God have faith in us? What do you mean by believe?
How about just get to the point?

 

God

1 Samuel 12:22
For the sake of his great name the LORD will not reject his people, because the LORD was pleased to make you his own.

God is man centered for His name sake.

You are just tap dancing so you will not be wrong.

There is nothing wrong with humbling yourself for the sake of the Lord, and admit that God is centered on us.

This is the circle of glory.

John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

We glory the Father's name, by gloryfing Jesus.

 

Is everyone saved and you just forgot to tell me? :laugh:

Yes, and for the glory He desires to share with His own people, John 17-18.

skypair

 

Considering that God will be "all in all" one day, centering on His children means centering on Himself unselfishly. Jesus said it well in John 17-18 -- I in Him and We in you. It's classic husband-wife talk -- two become one and from then on "center" on one another as one. Herein we understand love that is not self love.

skypair

 

Now don't get riled up, Amy. My daughter's name is Amy. If you're like her then I'm surely wasting my time. She's never lost an argument!

Anyway, I'm just trying to determined the extent of God's devotion to us. So I take it by your reaction that He does not believe in us. Some people do think that. There's a link to it at www.arminiansayings.blogspot.com.

 

So what you're saying is that God tries to save everyone but fails?

 

This is self-contradictory. If "His name sake" is the reason for his "man-centeredness," then he is in fact centered on his name and man receives the overflow of it.

How can anyone here possibly deny that God is centered on his own glory? This is so patently obvious in Scripture, only a hermneutic worse than what has been demonstrated by some "non-Calvinists" here could arrive at this conclusion.

 

Wow.......

 

Would a self centered man give his life for others?

It may be a matter of semantics, but I don't believe "self centered" should be the correct phrase...

Main Entry: self-cen·tered
Pronunciation: -'sen-t&rd
Function: adjective
1 : independent of outside force or influence : [SIZE=-1]SELF-SUFFICIENT[/SIZE]
2 : concerned solely with one's own desires, needs, or interests

God is clearly self sufficient, independent of anything else. From Scripture, He's obviously not concerned solely with His won desires, needs or interests. You don't sacrifice your only son if you are not concerned with the interests of others. Calvinists even have to admit He at least is concerned with the "elects" desires, needs and interests....making Him NOT self centered in that aspect.

 

We Amys have to stick together! I've never lost an argument either! Do you believe that? Me neither. :laugh:

I think God made his devotion to us quite clear when He left heaven to become a man and take the punishment for our sins.
Creation alone is enough to bring glory to Himself. He doesn't need to do anything else to show that He's God and we're not. He put Himself on the cross for our benefit not His.
How far would you go for your daughter? Would you give your life to save hers? Would you do it because you wanted to bring praise on yourself and prove your heroism? I don't think so. I think it would be an unselfish act on your part, but you would receive praise, not because you sought it, but because you deserve it.

 

A stunning admission, indeed!

It's that word "devotion" that I have problem with. "Love", yes; "instense love", yes; but devotion?

True, "the heavens declare the glory of God", but is it enough? No, for "when they knew God, they glorified him not as God". But for some, it is the cross, not creation, that glorifies God. "But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world."

This would be true if we were sinless. But since we're not, there's been a lot of us humans - and angels too - that have claimed to be God.

We did benefit, but wasn't the ultimate purpose of the cross His own glory? "That we should be to the praise of His glory".To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Yes.

It would be natural. Fathers and mothers are by nature the protectors of their offspring. It would be UNSELFISH to die for a stranger, or even an enemy. "For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die."

I would not deserve it.

 

The problem I'm seeing from the calvinist camp is equating receiving glory as the same thing as self centeredness. Apples and oranges.

 

Yes, in fact Scripture is clear about this when it describes Christ's death as the road to God's glory, and the restoration of the glory that Christ had with the Father previously.

The mistake we are making here is in thinking that being self-centered is inherently wrong. The reason it is wrong for humans to be self-centered is because they are not worthy of it. The reason it is righteous for God to be self-centered is because he is worthy of it.

 

JD:

I guess if you have a problem with the word devotion, you should have worded your question differently. I was just responding to your own words.

But, I do see God's devotion to us, all the way from Genesis to maps.

 

Scripture never defines Christ's death as a "self centered" act, but as an act of love (John 15:13). The result of that love brings Him glory, yes, but it is not self centered.
1 Corinthians 13:5 teaches us that love is NOT selfish...so now you've got problems.