The Self-Centered God

Absolutely.

How can we all read the same book and see God so differently? The God that Calvinists describe is nothing like the God that I read about in scripture. This is my observation and not meant to be mean.

 

Salvation

God is centered on man, He died for them to be saved for His name sake.

In the end everything will be placed under His feet.

If God glorifies Himself than His glory means nothing.

God centers on us and we bring Him glory.

I see this quite clear in scripture.

 

Why do you think love and pursuit of God's glory are somehow incompatible? I think what we are seeing here is the problem we see elsewhere in your thinking ... You grab a couple of verses of Scripture and ignore the rest of them. That ends up leading to a flawed theology.

The Bible declares that Jesus died to bring glory to God, and that his purpose in saving people was to bring glory to himself.

I would not argue at all that God's love is selfish. But being self-centered is not selfish either so we have no problem there.

 

Saying the two don't equate doesn't make it so. Offer proof, please, that there is a vast difference.

 

Leave the ad hominems out of this discussion, Larry. I have done no such thing. There is a difference between pulling a couple verses to prove a point and building one's theology solely on a couple verses. I'm not "ignoring the rest of them", so your accusation is false.

...like calvinism?

The Bible also declares that Jesus died to atone for sin....to reconcile mankind to the Father...and to defeat death. These all bring glory to God. This doesn't mean this was done in a self centered way nor fashion.

Define the difference between selfishness and self centeredness.

 

The difference between God and man, 101:

 

Thanks for adding exactly nothing to this discussion. Well, you did add a strawman, I guess...

 

Would it help if the word being used was "God-centered"?

But scripture says more than that. God's glory is not merely the result of his show of love toward human beings, but the ultimate purpose for it.

He saved people to demonstrate the wealth of his grace. (Ephesians 2). He saved to show something about himself.

He built the church to "disclose the multi-faceted wisdom of God", and this was his eternal purpose for what he accomplished in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 3). Once again, his plan to save is ultimately for the purpose of showing something about himself.

Over and over again, as well, God's delivering work is said to be "for his name's sake." In other words, the ultimate purpose is to show something about "his name", or who he is.

This doesn't mean that there aren't other purposes, but that "to the praise of his glory" or "to the praise of the glory of his grace" or "for his name's sake" or "to demonstrate the wealth of his grace" are always given last shows them to be the overarching, ultimate, primary purpose. The overarching purpose of God's saving work is to demonstrate characteristics of himself and bring himself glory in that way.

 

Result

The result of the name of God being glorified doesn't come from God being self-centered, but God being centered on Hius people.

 

In return, not being to be mean, I think that your presuppositions about what God is like determine what you find in Scripture. As we have seen the Scripture presented here, your side has no real answers for it.

 

For his name sake? What does that mean to you?

So what should God glorify? What is worthy of the affection and glory of God?

Perhaps you could stoop to show us where this is. The most Scripture you ever post seems to be your name.

 

I didn't bring any in.

You have rarely given any reasoned response to them. The verses you pull out to prove a point only prove that point because you ignore other verses, and sometimes they don't even prove your point at that.

No.

It doesn't mean it wasn't. Why did God save man? What was his reason? It was to bring glory to himself.

Selfishness is an unjust focus on self. Self-centeredness is simply being centered on self. God is not unjustly focused on himself. He is justly focused on the pursuit of his own glory, and he has plainly told that to us.

 

Triune

This is what is awesome about a triune God.

They glorify each other and never themselves to show us the way.

The Father glorifies the Son the Son glorifies the Father and we glorify the Father through Jesus by the Holy Spirit that is within us.

The Father we lift up His church in the last days.

 

Do you make these up yourself, or is there a site where you can copy and paste religious-sounding one-liners?

 

What is my side Pastor?
Can we not lay aside our differences and be on the side of Christ? Must the debate about Calvinism continue to split us apart? Will you only consider me to be a sister in Christ if I agree with you?

If I believe in free will, why does that bother you so much? Can we not be united in Christ and still maintain some differences in our interpretation of scripture? Do you think I'm unsaved because I believe in free will?

As far as my presuppositions go, I didn't have any. I wasn't raised in a Christian house and I have depended on the Bible for all my teachings.

 

Scripture

If you ever read my post you will find the scripture 3 that are put together where this comes from.

Only the anti-christ will glorify himself, so let only Jesus be glorified, so He will glorify my Father who is heaven.

 

webdog is right in questioning the title of this thread. Self-centered just doesn't fit. God is Spirit. He can't be divided into That One who has a Self. He doesn't need to "center". I AM.
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Thank you, Amy. Well said.

:jesus: <------Tetelestai!!

 

As I recall, you argue for the arminian side.

I have never questioned your faith in Christ, nor the faith of those who disagrees with me on this. But we disagree. We cannot both be right.

It doesn't bother me that much. In fact, I don't think I have ever responded to you very much, have I? What bothers me is when people say I believe something that I don't.

Yes.

No.

Actually we all have presuppositions. Your's may not have been formed by a Christian home, but you still have them.

 

Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Rule #1 - God is the boss.
Rule #2 - if there are any complaints about that, see rule #1.