The sign of the son of man

Yes , If one allegorizes those scripture which don't fit the system then preterism is a viable option.

e.g.

Matthew 25

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.​

Acts 1
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.​

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​

Revelation 20
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

And many others...

Presumably all this happened at the AD70 "parousia".

Just out of curiosity let me ask again - how does preterism see the end of the material universe since these passages and 2 Peter 3 and several other "last day" passages are not what the natural language indicates?

Will sin and death go on forever since Christ has come and gone and we now dwell in the new heavens and the new earth since according to the scripture there was no place found for the old ones which also Peter says will be dissolved (or were dissolved according to preterism)?

Someone, anyone?

Thanks
HankD

 

Just out of curiousity let me ask again (third time) how the literalist explains this seeming discrepancy:

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. Mt 5:18

....ye also were made dead to the law........we have been discharged from the law..... Ro 7:4,6

....the old covenant......is done away..... 2 Cor 3:14

....having abolished ......the law of commandments contained in ordinances....... Eph 2:15

 

And you aren't paying attention to the context. The context concerns whether He was coming to destroy the law. He states He didn't come to destroy it, but to fulfill it. When did Jesus fulfill it? When He died on Calvary, not in 70 AD. What was accomplished in 70 AD were the prophecies concerning the destruction of the city and sanctuary and the scattering of the people.

ETA: And by the way, that law still stands today, and there are still people under it. When Jesus returns from heaven, He will judge people according to that law, and everyone whose sins were not paid for at Calvary by Him will be weighed in the balances and found wanting. Then shall all the wicked be cast into the lake of fire.

 

He fulfilled it, and then done away with it:

but their minds were hardened: for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remaineth, it not being revealed to them that it is done away in Christ. 2 Cor 2:14

The heaven and earth of the old covenant has been rolled up like a scroll; changed like a garment:

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail. Heb 1

The heaven and the earth of the old covenant has been removed:

26 whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more will I make to tremble not the earth only, but also the heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain. Heb 12

I don't know how much plainer it can get than this:

having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2:15

 

Greetings kyredneck,

True the law has nothing to say to you and I and all those who are regenerate, who live by faith and are led of the Spirit.

The law however still stands as a standard for unregenerate humanity.

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;​

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.​

When heaven and earth pass away (2 Peter3) and all is accomplished then there will be no more unregenerate flesh and therefor no more need of the law.​

HankD​

 

Yea, and their heaven and earth is as iron and brass:

19 And I will break the pride of your power: and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass; Lev 26

23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. Dt 28

 

Hank, I've a 15 yr old granddaughter who could research the word 'fire' in a concordance and ascertain what the word is consistently, abundantly used as a metaphor of in the scriptures:

Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you with the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof. Ezek 22:21

 

I understand kyredneck.

Fire, water and many other elements are used metaphorically in the Scripture.

But not always.

And as a mater of fact, I believe the "fire" of 2 Peter 3 is a "fire" of a higher order than ordinary combustion. I believe it is thermo nuclear fusion and I believe it is how the corruptible (entropy) material universe will be transformed into the "new heavens and new earth".

Still, this does not answer my questions concerning the preterist view of the end of the material universe or the question concerning sin and death. Will sin and death go on forever? Will this world of sin and death ever end?

Is there a scripture that full preterism can point to with an answer?

These are legitimate questions that any Systematic Theology should answer no matter what it calls itself, full or partial preterist, futurist, etc...

Look, I consider you, Tom and Logos1 my brethren in Christ and I look forward to meeting all of you in that place called heaven (if, God willing not before that here on planet earth).

Also, I don't appreciate it when others gloat when anyone is hard put to answer questions. I don't do it myself and I hate to see it from others.

But I would like a preterists' answer to these questions.

Even an "I don't know" will suffice.

Thanks
HankD

 

I just want to let you know that I have been wanting to get involved on this, but have had serious ISP problems. I only stay on line for a minute or so at a time. Have lost 2 posts already. Repairmen come tomorrow though (fingers crossed)

 

The children of God are not under the law but under grace. Those who aren't God's children, however, are still under the law. They'll be judged by the law, according to their works, and will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

Ezekiel was written in highly symbolic language, the language of OT prophecy (the same style used by John in Revelation). 2 Peter 3 was not. It is written in a pretty straightforward, clear style. I don't believe the scoffers are symbolic for something else. He's talking about real people who are questioning the coming of the Lord. (by the way, they look a lot like uniformitarians) You have to really fight hard to not see that the apostle then references the Genesis account of creation and the flood.

 

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; Ro 2:12

Can anyone show me scripture that specifically states that the law of Moses will be the standard used to judge those who were never included in that covenant?

 

.........and this proves what? Christ refers to the flood and to the destruction of Sodom in reference to 'that generation' that judicially murdered Him:

25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it came to pass in the days of Noah, even so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise even as it came to pass in the days of Lot; they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all Lu 17

 

You are misinterpreting those verses.

 

Please tell how.

 

Ok.

He begins this part of His discourse by saying:

22 - The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and he shall not see it.
23 - And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 - For as the lightening, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; even so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 - But first he must suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Jesus says people are going to claim Messiah has come. I believe Josephus records where there were many charlatans around the Jewish-Roman war claiming these sorts of things and deceiving many. This is also referred to in the Olivet Discourse. Jesus warns His disciples not to believe it. The reason He gives them is, when He returns it will be like the lightening that lightens out of one part of the heaven and shines to the other part. In other words, it will be visible and global. This brings to mind the first chapter of Revelation which says, "behold , he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him." Don't be fooled, says Jesus, you'll know when I return. Then He says, "but first..." That's huge. Before I can return in such a visible way, I must first suffer many things and be rejected of this generation. Then He starts talking about the days of the Son of man, which He previously referred to. By the way, this part is highly similar to the Olivet Discourse as well, only most of these verses came after Jesus talked about AD 70 and began talking about what should come after the tribulation of those days.

 

'But first' (v 25) denotes a change in topic, and considering that the next verse (v 26) begins with 'And', there is no reason to believe the allusions to Noah and Sodom are concerning anything else but 'that generation'.

26 And as it came to pass in the days of Noah, even so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.