Featured The Sinners prayer

Agedman...

I said...

And you responded with...

Oh my.

You are a calvinist, arent you?

So what you are basically saying is that, for a person to be saved, they are to go to God with their situation, and place their faith in Christ....

Only after they they already know that...they are already saved???

Thats completly nonsensical, agedman.

We do not chose to place our faith in Christ after we are saved, we place our faith in Christ in order to be saved.

God does not save people by *stealth*, or by *divine magic*.

He recieves penitant sinners, just as they are, at the moment they sincerly choose to place thier faith in Christ.

There is no other way to be saved.

I hope that helps.

 

Actually it is completely sensible.

First is the admission that nothing takes place outside of God's direct and purposed work to convert the unregenerate into a believer.

Second is the admission that it is totally undeserved and totally of God's mercy. Not any of it is the will of man; this is as the Scriptures state.

Third is the admission that the faith is not human generated, for it would then be as corrupt as the unregenerate mind and heart. Faith is the gift of God specificly applied to the person by the work of the Holy Spirit using the word of God causing that person to become a believer.

Fourth is the admission that the person in whom God has chosen will hear His call (claim) on his life and will respond.

What makes you think that God waits that long?

On a recent thread Winman posted Scriptures which proved that names were written in the Book of life before the foundations of the world. He also pointed out that there was never a Scripture indicating that names were added to the book after the time the foundations of the world.

So what brings salvation.

The Scriptures say, "Godly sorrow works repentance unto salvation." It isn't the repentance, it is the Godly sorrow that works (fashions, causes to perform) repentance and not man generated emotionalism or rationalism.

What can bring Godly sorrow to the very core of the unregenerate? Not man, only God.

I suggest you are wrong on two counts.

First, the unregenerate man has no ability to "sincerely choose to place their faith in Christ." The best an unregenerate person can do is to feel sorrow for being caught and covering with lies - remember Adam and Eve?

Second, there are no Scriptures to indicate God receives penitent sinners that are unregenerate.

However, the regenerate who expresses faith and belief is reflecting the saving work that God has already accomplished in their life. Example Paul the Apostle.

All except Paul heard no voice from Christ.

All except Paul understood nothing of what transpired.

All except Paul went on in the journey with unchanged lives.

 

Agedmam, you posted...

There is no doubt that God is involved in every facet of the universe.


And that includes the salvation of men and women, boys and girls etc.
And the scriptures are also overflowing with evidence that God has chosen to save the "whosoever wills" rearding salvation.

And that clearly means that when all is said and done, God honors the "choice" people make to place thier faith in Christ, or not to.

He does NOT make that choice...we do.

OK. at this point you are entering into false teaching. The scriptures are overflowing with evidence that we do indeed have a part in our salvation. One must completly ignore and disregard literally REAMS of Gods inerrant scripture in order to hold to John Calvins view.

I am sorry, but your Calvinism is absolutly CORRUPTING the simplicity of the gosple.

"Faith" is nothing more then entrusting something that is very valuable to YOU, into the care of someome else.

Most men and women WANT salvation, They want to avoid hell. They are offererd eternal salvation on the basis of one choice. Choose to place there eternal destiny in the care of Jesus Christ, or...go it alone, and take your chances. Its that simple.

That of course is contingent on the person choosing to place thier faith in Christ.. God will not do that magically.

Well, God desires for EVERYONE to come. And He "Gives Light" to every single person who comes into the world. The scriptures are clear. "Come to me ALL you who are weary and heavey laden, and you will find rest."

However, people have a decision to make.

 

Your post here is a denial of salvation by grace.It is a denial of the work of the Spirit which indeed is essential to new birth......[not magic}

your post does not resemble any scripture at all.....where does scripture say God chooses whosoever wills........as you state....I am not asking for whosoever will verses.....i am asking you to support your false claim that God ...looks to respect mans choice...then choose those men.

:laugh::laugh: I should have known this was coming.....

 

Lord, please be merciful to me a sinner.

 

To satisfy what appears to be a very conditional statement in the Scriptures..."That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved"... "Call upon the name of the Lord and thou shalt be saved"

"Lord, Remember me when you go into your kingdom"

"and the eunuch said "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"

 

Be more specific. Those verses can be achieved w/out the "sinner's prayer". Specifically, what is the purpose as it relates to evangelism?

BTW... thanks for someone finally answering my question.

 

I know that when I was saved I didn't repeat a prayer, but others have.

I remember the evangelist saying Christ is knocking at your hearts door won't you let Him in. I remember the burden on my heart (mind) and responded come in Lord Jesus and save me. Seems I responded as I was told to let Jesus come into my life, the sinners prayer when spoken by one under conviction is just an instruction to them as to how to respond to that conviction from the Holy Spirit and leads them to salvation.

By the way I was 7 years old at the time and I still remember how burdened I was to let Christ come in. So the sinners prayer is a guide for the unbeliever who has no idea of exactly what they need to say or do to receive Christ.

 

"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto Salvation"

 

Nonsense.

Completly false

Ha! Cavinism is the theological system that advocates "magic", as in the idea that God regenerates someone. and then...sometime later...the person magically discovers they are.....SAVED!

Iconoclast, please, PLEASE tell me you are joking. You can not possibly be that scripturally iliterate.

(((WHAT))) ???

You just asked me to show you the scriptural truth of God saving the "whosoever wills" ....but you asked me to.....NOT...USE SCRIPTURE!!!


I said....

And you said...

Yes, you should have. But until you come to your senses your calvinistic confusion will continue.

 

I've said this before, I'll say it again. I'm not so much opposed to the use of the Sinner's Prayer as the abuse by those witnessing to a lost person.

If you have to tell someone the words to say, you have failed as a witness and a soul-winner. You have failed to give them enough of the gospel.

When a person's sole testimony of salvation is "I said the prayer," that scares the daylights out of me.

 

Okay, some questions here:
Romans 10:9 says one will be said if they "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe that God raised him from the dead."

The NIV puts it this way: "If you declare with your mouth that 'Jesus is Lord, and...."

So, does this mean that one must say "Jesus is Lord" out loud to be saved?

BTW, there's nothing here about repentance and faith. Are those implicit in one's desire to confess Christ as Lord?

Is there a difference between telling a lost person "say these magic words," (the sinner's prayer) and telling them to confess aloud that "Jesus is Lord?"

Paul told the Philippian jailer "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." Nothing about repenting, nothing about praying a prayer, nothing about saying anything aloud.

Paul told the folks on Mars Hill that God commands them to repent. Nothing about believing. Nothing about confessing. Nothing about praying.

Anybody want to sort this out?

 

"...over flowing with evidence..." is a bit strong.

Why don't you start with presenting five verses in context that state "whosoever wills" in regard to salvation.

I was wondering about when this thinking that man has so much authority that they in their fallen nature - that as the Scripture teach is the enemy of God - become so enamored with salvation that they self choose to be saved.

I think that this choice business that you hold needs Scriptural proof. Again, show by Scripture that fallen man EVER has chosen salvation that perseveres. Even the Israeli folks who had the very presence of God in the tabernacle failed to persevere - and at least they were offered a choice by the messenger - doesn't mean it was offered by God, though.

"over flowing with evidence" "REAMS of Gods inerrant scripture"

Then post the Scriptures! Don't merely puff up and spout off with nothing but vapor!

Paul states in 2 Corinthians and in Galatians that the believer is by faith of Jesus Christ. "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

PLEASE show how the Scripture can read YOUR faith IN Jesus Christ.

Prove Paul wrong - not Calvin.

Unsound and unscriptural. Man generated thinking at best.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1.

It is not TRUSTING, it is substance and evidence.

Christ said that the "MANY" walk on the wide street to destruction.

Again, you are busy with this "choice" business. Show me the Scriptures; especially Scriptures that state the unregenerate person has their own power and volition to: First, have a "free will" and secondly "to chose salvation" without the expressed work of the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures.

You want to blame Calvin and make large the mistakes of the view.

However, you have offered not a single Scripture of the abundance you claim exists.

Perhaps you can.

But, be sure to place them in context and give clear meaning and application.

 

Aged man... I posted...

And you then responded....

Gosh, I would have thought that you would have...already known them.

Aparently you actually dont. Thats amazing to me. I am not a calvinist, but I am aware of the calvinist erroneous proof texts.

But you need me to give then to you.

Do you not study and feed on the scriptures?? I do, all the time. I am a scripture guy.

Oh well. Here you go...

Verses that show election is conditional:

Matthew 11:28-30 – Salvation is an invite to those who will come.
John 3:16
John 4:42
John 6:40
John 6:51 – Must eat of the bread of life to receive benefit.
Acts 13:39
Romans 1:16-17
Romans 5:1-2 – It is through faith that we are made a part of Christ.
Romans 9:30
Ephesians 1:13
1 Timothy 4:10 – Jesus died for all, but there is a specific subset that receives the benefits, namely those who believe.
1 Peter 1:1-2 – Election is according to God’s foreknowing who shall believe.


Verses that show the atonement is available for all:

Isaiah 53:6 – The iniquity of us all was put on Christ.
Matthew 11:28-30 – Any who some to Christ are welcome.
Matthew 18:14 – The Father does not wish that any should perish (anti predestined-reprobation).
John 1:7 – Jesus intended for all, wants all to believe.
John 1:29
John 3:16-17
John 6:33, 51
John 12:47
Romans 3:23-24 – All have sinned and all have access to justification in Christ Jesus.
Romans 5:6 – Christ died for the ungodly. Since all are ungodly, Christ died for all.
Romans 5:15 – Since sin spread to all, Christ’s atonement is meant for all.
Romans 10:13 – Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 – All died, yet Christ died for all.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 – God desires all men to be saved, and gave Himself for all
1 Timothy 4:10
Titus 2:11 – God’s necessary grace that leads to repentance appears to all.
Hebrews 2:9 – Jesus tasted death for everyone.
Hebrews 10:10 – Christ offered once for all.
2 Peter 3:9
1 John 4:14
1 John 2:2 – Jesus is the propitiation, not just for believers, but for the whole world.
John 4:42
Revelation 22:17

Verses that show grace is resistible:

Jeremiah 7:24
Luke 7:30
Acts 7:51 – Blatant resistance of the Holy Spirit. It is proper to infer that if they didn’t resist, they would have been led to repentance.
Romans 10:16 – Not all who hear will believe.
2 Corinthians 6:1 – One can receive God’s grace, yet not appropriate it in their lives.

Verses that show we must remain in Christ to be secure:

Romans 11:17-24
1 Corinthians 15:2
Ephesians 5:3-7
Colossians 1:21-23
2 Peter 1:10
2 Peter 2:20-22
Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:26
James 1:12; 5:19-20


Verses that show man has libertarian free will

Free will offering verses
Exodus 35:29; 36:3
Leviticus 7:16; 22:18, 21, 23; 23:38
Numbers 15:3; 29:39
Deuteronomy 12:6, 17; 16:10
2 Chronicles 31:14; 35:8
Ezra 1:4, 6; 3:5; 7:16; 8:28
Psalm 119:108
Ezekiel 46:12
Amos 4:5
Isaiah 1:19-20 – Can choose to be obedient or rebel.
Ezekiel 33:11 – Have the ability to choose from different options.
Luke 7:30 – Pharisees rejected what God wanted for them.
John 7:17 – A person must want to do what God is giving them the grace to do. This verse shows that God allows things He doesn’t want to happen.
1 Corinthians 7:37 – Power over own will–not necessitated–that’s the definition of LFW.
1 Corinthians 10:13


Verses demonstrating God’s prevenient grace

Jeremiah 31:3
John 16:7-11
Romans 2:4 – It is God’s grace that leads us to repentance.
Romans 10:14-17 – One must hear God’s word to come to faith.
Titus 2:11 – God’s grace leads to repentance.


Verses showing sin is not from God

Jeremiah 7:24
James 1:13-15
1 John 2:16

I have given you the scriptures you asked for. In fact I have gone way beyond what you asked for.

God bless.

 

I agree 100% with this post.

 

AIC,

this list of verses does not prove your false theory...they do not deal with election....you do not understand it ....at all.even the verse in 1 peter ....you mis-use foreknowledge......

This is a complete mis-representation of what i said......can you at least be honest while maintaining your error.....I said the scripture you claim has God....electing/choosing...whosoever will......you cannot do it, because there is not one verse...so you twist what i said.

Ps...i know you cannot do it....but thanks for at least trying too!

 

Iconoclast,

Well, about all I can say is you came through with flying colors. That is *precisly* the the kind of response I was expecting.

Congratulations

 

Posting a long list of references is NOT what I asked you to supply.
To quote a few areas of my post:

Why don't you start with presenting five verses in context that state "whosoever wills" in regard to salvation.

Paul states in 2 Corinthians and in Galatians that the believer is by faith of Jesus Christ. "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Show me the Scriptures; especially Scriptures that state the unregenerate person has their own power and volition to: First, have a "free will" and secondly "to chose salvation" without the expressed work of the Holy Spirit through the Scriptures.​

But to respond (in part) to the list you posted:


Matthew 11:28-30

28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light​

.
(These verses are not about “unconditional election.”)


John 4:42

42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)

John 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which sees the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)

John 6:51

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Acts 13:39

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)

Romans 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.​

(These verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Romans 5:1-2

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Romans 9:30

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


Ephesians 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


1 Timothy 4:10

10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.​

(This verse is not about “unconditional election.”)


1 Peter 1:1-2

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.​

Well of all the verses in the list, we finally find one that actually is about “election.”

BUT please note that the “foreknowledge of God the Father” is the “according to” that the subject (elect) refers.

More, such election and foreknowledge takes place before the foundation of the world, which also includes the sanctification, and the sprinkling of blood.

I won't respond to the rest of "alive in Christ" post - it would do little to edify him.