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The smoking gun, of the Earth’s age

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by stilllearning, Jan 5, 2011.

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  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I tend to look at it as an outline form in the type of literature it is. Day is the dividing point or the organizational method. Note how the passages are laid out
    Each bolded aspect seem to be a refrain almost musical in design. So it seem to be almost a musical chant design with a refrain indicating organization points of a day. Look at the sixth day. Concluding refrain - "all that he made... and it was very good" seems to conclude the refrain note the 7th day does not have this refrain in that it is set apart
    So if you take the 1st and 3rd day there is correlation that the 3rd is a more detailed explicitive of the first day as is the 2nd and 4th day and 3rd and 6th day. The seventh day is added into an already established created time frame and is a new thing added after creation is complete. Thus its seems to me this is a literary technique to explain creation in an easy way so as can be remembered by children with the refrain "And there was evening, and there was morning" indicating a deliniation of the next organizational step which is related to day.

    I can almost imagine Hebrew children singing a "creation song" like our kids sing "Father Abraham"
     
  2. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    I think imagine is the key word. That whole post was nothing more than something created in your imagination without a single bit of scripture to back you up.
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I think you meant me but I could be mistaken. However, when you said
    Your absolutely right. So when they wrote things they explained it how they saw it or experienced it God then made it alive by using their terminology and stylistic writings to express something greather than they knew. Which is why it says in the bible there are four corners of the earth. Or that the winds come from gates. That is because the men didn't understand the science we have to day and expressed them in the fashion they understood it. However, God still uses their expression and limited abilities to get his meanings across and a poetic referrence is easily made more majestic as in my point with Psalms 22. God did not dictate that to David. Rather David was lamenting and it came out that way to God's glory. But It was David's experience that David wrote and this is how God works together with man to have the scripture written. Its almost symbyotic. This is how man cooperates with God in the writing of the text.
     
  4. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I used the whole first chapter of Genesis. How is that for scripture See this is the thing I disagree with you entirely and I'm making my case using scripture and so forth. You on the otherhand resort to personal insult and insuation rather than reasoned arguement. I haven't insulted you or suggested you are imagining things but I do put forth my arguments using scripture text to show literary stylistic writings period context etc...
    Jesus said by this they shall know you are mine. What was it? Love, charity. You do argue in such a way by insulting that I deem that if I were laying on the road to Jericho you would leave me there bleeding on the side of the road simply because I disagree with you. You can see this attitude of yours by how you insult rather than engage. You have shown yourself to be no different that the Catholic Leaders who placed Galileo in Jail because he had verifiable evidence that the universe was not geocentric but that the solar system at least was heliocentric. They said the same things of Galileo. "oh you don't believe God." Galileo certainly believed in God but because he didn't agree with how they viewed the bible they insulted him and locked him up. This seems to be your methodology. Note I used Genesis to back up my supposition. You retort with insult.
     
  5. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    How was that personal insult? There is no mention anywhere in the bible of Hebrew children singing a song or of the creation account in the first chapter of Genesis being a song. You created that entirely in your imagination without the support of scripture. Prove me wrong. Find me one verse that supports your position. I'll quote your very words: "I can almost imagine Hebrew children singing a "creation song" like our kids sing 'Father Abraham'."

    That's not a personal insult.
     
  6. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    You keep saying that man cooperates with God in writing the text. That might be right if it wasn't completely wrong. Peter said, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." That's pretty simple. It didn't come by the will of man. Well, if it isn't by the will of man, whose will did it come by? God's. They spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. That isn't cooperation.

    You say they wrote as they understood. Problem is, they wrote things no man in their day knew. That's a huge hole in your theory that you haven't even attempted to patch up.
     
  7. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Good and godly men have disagreed on this for years and we're not going to solve it today or tomorrow either. I am comfortable with literal 24-hour days and a six-day creation interpretation but I won't make it a test of fellowship.
     
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    This is a common misconception:

     
  9. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Do not play coy with me! You're saying I used no scripture and the whole synopsis was imagination. When in fact I've shown the literary aspect of refrain like refrains in psalms. The creation account has a musical tint to it with a standard refrain as can be seen literarily.

    Since we understand that Moses is responsible for writing the Torah or Pentatuch it is also understood that he obtain the genesis account via oral tradition. Which partly was compiled and partly given by God. Because of these events I made a comment that since we can see a standard musical refrain in the liturature of the creation account that I made a side comment about hebrew children in Egypt singing this stuff as Our children would sing Father Abraham.

    your insult came in when you suggested that my noted "imagined" view of children was my method of making the determination about the literary style of writing and organizational method or that I just invented it. Or that I don't use evidence to make a conclusion. That is insulting. Instead of arguing the context of my argument to form a disagreement as a debater would you simply charge me with imagination. That is insulting. The fact is you weren't there and niether was I but it seems there is reasonable supposition that the creation account can be looked at more than one way by literary review of the text.
     
  10. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Not at all. They wrote what they knew. God used their styles to show more. I am certain that if Job actually believed the world was placed on a pillar but being destraught in his emotion and said it supported by nothing and God holds it there. Job still believed in the pillar. Certainly Job wasn't thinking gravity and space as we understand it. But God took his terms and used it to reveal a truth. But here is the point. JOB SAID IT FROM WHAT HE WAS THINKING. GOD DID NOT DICTATE IT TO HIM. In otherword it was Job who said it and the spirit gave his words life. There needs to be no patch it still is a cooperation unless you want me to believe God took pen to paper and wrote the whole scriptures himself. God and Man. God orchestrating Man and inspiring him to write. that is cooperation.
     
  11. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    You claim that CTB won't answer your question. How about you Man up and say what you are referring to concerning his salvation. Are you saying that since CTB doesn't believe in a literal 24 hour day creation, he is lost and going to hell? Come on answer the question, not be afraid!
     
  12. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that anyone that doesn't believe in a literal 24 hour day creation is not saved. I said it in the other post and I'm saying it again. Do you have a hard time understanding that?
     
  13. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    And what part of scripture do you find that judgement in? So, in order to be saved you must have faith in Jesus + 24 hour actual creation cycl that doesn't permit the earth to be older than 6,000 years? Didn't the Pharisees say the the apostles and jesus couldn't be "saved" because they "worked" on the sabath not according to god's word in Torah?
     
  14. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    This just one more in a long line of foolish statements you continually make concerning your brothers in Christ. God forgive your ignorance and arrogance!
     
  15. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    If you don't believe in the God of the Bible, you believe in the wrong God. How can one be saved when they believe in the wrong God?
     
  16. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I don't believe God is wrong. I believe God is right. I believe the same God who inspired the writing of Scriptures also became man and died for my sin. What we are at odds about is how to interpret the genesis one account. Not every thing in the bible hold equal literal value. For instance there are fictional accounts in the bible. Doesn't mean the points are less true. You will no doubt say there is no fictional accounts. I suggest you review the Parables of Jesus once again. They were stories or works of fiction to make a point. Now I'm not saying Genesis one is a fictional account but I'm not certain God intends you to treat those passages as scientific verification on the exact way the universe was created. What is important is that God did it and he did it the way he says it but that way may be misunderstood by both you and I. I think its the height of arrogance to suggest that if someone doesn't believe exactly as you do that they aren't saved. I leave that determination to God. The requirement for salvation is Belief on Jesus. There is a lot of Minutae that get past off as requirements for salvation.
     
  17. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    If you doubt the Genesis account, then you doubt the inerrant nature of Scripture. Doubting the inerrant nature of Scripture means you believe in the wrong God. We are at odds with each other. You are at odds with God.
     
  18. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Thats like me saying if you doubt Jesus own words in John 6:51 and 53 then "you doubt the inerrant nature of Scripture. Doubting the inerrant nature of Scripture means you believe in the wrong God. Then We are at odd with each other. You are at odds with God"

    So do you believe you must eat the flesh of Jesus and Drink his blood? If you don't you doubt the inerrant nature of Scripture. See how silly that is? Muslims have this type of faith. Your either for or against me and if you are against me then you are against God. And if you are against God you must burn.

    See so your own logic does you in. Of course I believe in the errant word of God but I believe its meaning (especially genesis 1) differently than you do with creation. Just like you would disagree with some one who mentions John 6:51. But Jesus is clear YOU MUST EAT HIS FLESH. If you interpret it as it is written it means chew or gnaw his flesh. Its clear as is YOM meaning 24 hours. But you choose one over the other. Both are spoken literally. So do you have a problem with the inerrant word of God?
     
  19. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    You may say that all you like. I believe in Jesus words throughout the entire book of John, not juse 6:51 and 6:53. I know how to take things in context.

    There is no additional context to the Genesis account that would tell us that it is anything but a literal 7 day period. The only way to come to the conclusion that it is not a literal 7 day period is by disregarding what it plainly says.

    Question for you, since Crabby wouldn't answer, do you believe God instantly created Adam and Eve as fully developed human beings?

    (oh, and btw, in my last post it should have said "We are at not at odds with each other. You are at odds with God.".)
     
  20. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    It's easy!
     
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