The Story of Kwanzaa

From Wikipedia:
More than 100 years after the first Labor Day observance, there is still some doubt as to who first proposed the holiday for workers. Some records show that Peter J. McGuire, general secretary of the Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners and a cofounder of the American Federation of Labor, was first in suggesting a day to honor those "who from rude nature have delved and carved all the grandeur we behold."
But Peter McGuire's place in Labor Day history has not gone unchallenged. Many believe that Matthew Maguire, a machinist, not Peter McGuire, founded the holiday. Recent research seems to support the contention that Matthew Maguire,...Labor Day has been celebrated on the first Monday in September in the United States since the 1880s. The form that the observance and celebration of Labor Day should take were outlined in the first proposal of the holiday — a street parade to exhibit to the public "the strength and esprit de corps of the trade and labor organizations" of the community, followed by a festival for the recreation and amusement of the workers and their families. This became the pattern for the celebrations of Labor Day. Speeches by prominent men and women were introduced later, as more emphasis was placed upon the economic and civic significance of the holiday. Still later, by a resolution of the American Federation of Labor convention of 1909, the Sunday preceding Labor Day was adopted as Labor Sunday and dedicated to the spiritual and educational aspects of the labor movement.

The first McGuire, BTW, was a socialist, had been arrested for embezzlement, and died an alcoholic. The second was merely a socialist. Nevertheless, radical beginnings, as I said. Both were labor leaders, who encouraged workers vs. employers.

Barbarian observes:
There are real problems in this country that need work, before we start telling other people how they should do their holidays.

As you see above, you could go on the same rant about Labor Day. But to what end?

Ah, so "That's different!" How is it different? Not hard to figure out.

I think there is one. I ignore them, too. But to be honest, the stuff I see being presented by people who celebrate Kwanzaa seems a lot less troubling, yes.

I have an even better idea; let's let everyone decide for himself; it saves all that effort of being the holiday police.

Doesn't look very likely, does it? Tilting at windmills sure won't do it.

 

Source, please.

BTW, Labor Day is a uniter, not a divider, unlike Kwanzaa, as previously pointed out, unless one considers the working man being divided against corporate America. And there certainly aren't any spiritual connotations attributed to Labor Day, unlike Kwanzaa.

My dad used to say if you throw a rock in a pack of dogs, the one who gets hit yelps the loudest, for what it's worth.

Do a google search on African holidays and Kwanzaa doesn't even pop up - at least it didn't for me when I tried it.

 

Nothing, but as I have asked several times, what is the point? What does the person who feels compelled to point out the roots of Kwanzaa. If a segment of the population wants to celebrate it, then so what?

Benign? If you turn on FoxNews or the radio programs of the hosts on FoxNews Radio, you can hear several people refer to the "war on Christmas." Why not leave both holidays alone? The people who celebrate Kwanzaa aren't rioting in the streets, they aren't causing problems, they aren't bothering us in any way shape or form.

If the celebration works to get people together as families and helps them to discuss these principles, then more power to them. If it helps to foster some African-American pride, then good for them. I hardly believe that the celebration somehow turns into a rally to foster Marxist ideals.

I live in a predominately African-American neighborhood here in Richmond, and I have seen more than one household celebrating this festival/holiday. Not once during the observance did I witness any type of bad behavior, or did I encounter any malice from anyone. I wasn't approached by any Marxists, nor did I discover any Marxist propaganda stapled to the telephone poles or road signs. There haven't been any demonstrations or any civil disobedience.

Moreover, if this works to foster "black pride," then I would argue that this is a good thing. It is nice to see a community develop a sense of pride. Nobody seems to have a problem with Italian or Irish Americans having some ethnic pride, so I would argue that the same applies to the African-American community.

NEVER did I make mention of the religious persuasions of the poster in question - NEVER. I was using sarcasm to make a point, nothing more. As I have already suggested, that never even occurred to me when I typed that. To suggest otherwise is not only intellectual dishonesty, it is bearing false witness - as the proof for such an egregious claim is simply not there. [That was not directed at you, by the way.]

I never mentioned the subject of race.

I don't have to admit it, as I never said anything about race. The proof is right there in my posts.

As long as you:
1. Stick to the discussion at hand
2. Accurately represent what I wrote when you reply to me
3. Are not intellectually dishonest or bear false witness against me

then everything is fine. Judging by this post, you were not making an attempt to do these things, so you don't owe me an apology. On the contrary, thanks for taking the time to reply so thoughtfully.

As a proud alumnus of the University of Tennessee (who looked absolutely pathetic in the Outback Bowl), I feel your pain.
I am also an ardent supporter of the Tribe (College of William & Mary) so at least we are on a four-game winning streak on the court!! I am hoping to go up to Farifax, VA to see them play George Mason tomorrow night, and then Saturday to see the Tribe take on Northeastern in Williamsburg.

A sincere Happy New Year to you and yours,
BiR

 

Peter McGuire as founder of Labor day:
http://info.detnews.com/history/story/index.cfm?id=150&category=business

Apprenticed to a piano maker in 1867 at the age of 15, McGuire was active in labor and radical circles, including the New York branch of the International Workingmen's Association...
Convinced of the futility of reformist measures, in May 1874 McGuire helped form the Social Democratic party (later the Socialist Labor party) and spent the next five years organizing chapters throughout New England, the West, the Southwest and the Midwest. Wherever he went, he urged workers to organize themselves, abolish the wage system and institute a universal system of cooperative production and distribution...
Ill health and alcoholism forced McGuire to resign from the AFL in 1900, and growing opposition to his leadership of the UBC led to his expulsion in 1902 on the basis of trumped-up embezzlement charges. McGuire died on Feb. 18, 1906, in Camden, N.J., where he is buried.
http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/history/history/mcguire.cfm

So, what now unites us, was initially a very divisive agenda, led by a radical socialist, who had been arrested for embezzlement.

Sure, Kwanzaa is oriented to people of African descent. If that's bad, what about other holidays like St. Patrick's day?

This one seems to be a lot of ado about nothing to me. It's not meant to be a replacement for Christmas; most people I know who celebrate Kwanzaa also celebrate Christmas. And most of them consider Christmas to be a religious holiday, and Kwanzaa not to be religious.

 

I'm betting that the 80% of Africian Americans in California that celebrate kwanzaa in whole or in part, do not know of Kwanzaa's origions and subtle political backgrounds. Threfore giving such arguments as followed in this thread to them is meaningless and will probable motivate them to join marxism or worst anway. However instead of just de-legitimizing this post, I did hear somebody finally mention the main crux of this matter. It's a holiday for "Black People". Not that I haven't heard of other ethnicities celebrating it, but the issue here is no that Kwanzaa has be placed to the level of Christmas and Hanakkuah, but that those hoidays have been lowerd to a ethnic basis! The majority of the minority (what a phrase! :tongue3 population and political arenas still think Christmas is about Whites, not Jesus. That in itself is a bigger problem than this small counterattack to a problem that isn't even there anymore, as much (that being white racism).

 

Meh, Labor Day means: a) the start of school, plus or minus three weeks, b) every place will be crowded, c) stop wearing white.

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

You denied "fundie", dodged "neo-con", so you answered. Thanks!!!

Yes, he does, he may become First Lady in two years.

Well, we all know there's no such thing as racism on the part of the "African-American community", real smart white liberals have told me so!

Then all these many people should hear about where this fake holiday originates from.

Well, I said "that's the way they talk to what they consider a 'fundie'" to someone else in response to your "tools of the devil" remark because that's the way you talk to someone you think is a fundie.

Who was the funide - him? Me? Hence, the remark and the follow up.

Kwanzaa must really be a holiday for white liberals only.

The crux of the matter. Okay, let's talk about these "several values":

Nothing divisive there! Makes absolutely NO sense at all, just Marxist blather - in Swahili, too!

I'm still concerned with his sex life. Just tell yourself that until you believe it.

Sounds like progress, don't push him too hard, probably bad experiences in the past...re the resistance to "organized religion".

I'm tired of people now, so I wouldn't have gone to the funeral, either, even a state one. Prayers for him and his family....

You might think the roots of Kwanzaa are irrelevant, but either the "founder" doesn't:

http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/7principles.shtml

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

There is NO "tradition of Kwanzaa", this is a Marxist black separatist speaking. He invented this "holiday" for politically ideological reasons only, he admits that. White liberals don't.

Die, Kwanzaa, die!!!

 

Um... yeah.... right... okay.... WHAT?
I said absolutely nothing about fundie or neo-con. In both cases, you are the one who introduced these topics.

WHAT?
What does this have to do with anything?

Who said anything about "racism on the part of the 'African-American community?'"

Oh, so this is a "fake holiday?" Interesting.....

Please provide proof for your claim of "that's the way (I) talk to someone (I) think is a fundie." Don't turn this into an integrity issue for yourself.

That is an easy answer - I don't know, which is PRECISELY why I never speculated about whether or not you were a "fundie," or anyone else for that matter. You are the one who introduced this point into the discussion, not me.

Who made this claim?

Um...... okay......... right.......... got it!

Once again, I never mentioned ANYTHING about the sex life of the former POTUS. This was a disturbing comment, and I have absolutely no idea why you brought up the sex life of the former POTUS.

Did you read the official kwanzaa site?

http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/NguzoSaba.shtml

Where are political ideologies here?

BiR

 

Right. There's a difference between "introducing the topic" from that of "replying to the topic". Both words introduced by me. You replied a "no" to "fundie"and never answered to "neo-con". There's only two.

Yes, Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

???

"tools of the devil"...and

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

I know, I know, I know. Did you know Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday?

Just tell yourself I'm a Rush Limbaugh listener, then, still...

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

We both know who. Clueless liberal, I don't think so!

You like the holiday because it should exist to you. But it's a contrived invention by a convicted murderer. It's a lie.

Sarcasm. You taught me well, Obi-wan.

Yeah, I read most of it, every divisive word out of his wannabee-Marxist leader mouth.

Better question, where aren't the political ideologies on that site?

Black separatist communist.

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

Die, Kwanzaa, die!!!

 

So because Labor Day was invented by a socialist who wanted all means of production held in common, we shouldn't celebrate it?

My guess is that the people who celebrate Labor Day, or Kwanzaa aren't really thinking about the sort of people who started these holidays.

I'm guessing if Kwanzaa was started by Armenians as their own holiday, no one would be upset in the least.

For obvious reasons...

 

First, can you help me out with something? Who 's "the Barbarian"?????

Maybe, because we don't celebrate it. It's a day off, a milestone that marks the unoffical end of summer.

I agree, the autumn equinox is a MUCH better marker if you live above the 45th parallel.


Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

With Labor Day, they're thinking "day off".

With Kwanzaa, they're thinking "black Christmas".

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

Finally, the hint that "opponents" of the the phoney holiday must be inherently racist. For obvious reasons, of course.

But that was my argument, you'd freak if there was a KKK equivalent of Labor Day, and the sitting president was sending "hello" messages to those observing the Klan's phoney holdiay. Your tolerance would fly out the closest window forever.

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

Die, Kwanzaa, die!!!

For obvious reasons...

 

Armenians have been the recipients of genocide by muslims, so that is a straw man thrown into this debate, Galatian.

 

The reason for that is that is has no bearing on subject at hand.

Interesting that you would make this statement. Unlike many on this board, I willingly admit to listening to El Rushbo when he is firmly ensconced behind the golden microphone. [That is my personal favorite quote from Maha Rushie.] But since you brought it up, you have displayed more than one Rush tactic:

1. You are all over the page with respect to the subject at hand.
2. You repeat yourself continually. [i.e. "Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday."]
3. You introduced former President Bill Clinton into the discussion.
and
4. After bringing up the former POTUS, you made a reference to his sex life: in your particular case, completely out of the blue!

Where did I say that I "like[d] this holiday?" I am not African-American, so it is not my place to question the holiday.

Apparently not, young Luke.
Sarcasm is most effective when it is used to make a point. You are all over that proverbial page with respect to your use of sarcasm.

That's funny: you answer my question with a question that is in direct contrast to the initial question. I would imagine that it is not there because that is not the focus of the celebration. Now that I answered your question, perhaps you will answer mine.

Doubtful,
BiR

 

Hey! I celebrated that day but it was a bummer when I found out that French protested against it.

 

From the other black Jesse's website (the conservative black Jesse):

http://www.bondinfo.org/activism/kwanzaa/template.htm

 

More...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1301161/posts

 

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

Die, Kwanzaa, die!!!

Maybe becase I have no idea what the question exactly is?

...only if you must...

I think, think, that it's this:

...referring to the "founder" of Kwanzaa's website, ya?

My answer:

Just pull a random paragraph, then:

Kwanzaa was established in 1966 in the midst of the Black Freedom Movement and thus reflects its concern for cultural groundedness in thought and practice, and the unity and self-determination associated with this.

But you think it's above reproach, too PC to even question, much less dispute. Kwanzaa's a lie, that's not going to matter to you, since...

You really believe this, don't you?:

Sold. Liberal white guilt is a powerful thing, indeed.

Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

Die, Kwanzaa, die!!!

 

Good guess.

...........was NOT an answer: it was a question.

Please stop being intellectually dishonest. I have never stated that this celebration is "above reproach." Kindly stick to what I have written if you are going to bother responding to me - stop introducing thoughts that were never written and then attributing them to me.

You are correct: I am a LIBERAL. Anyone who has debated/fellowshipped with me knows this. The "Liberal white guilt" is yet another unrelated subject that you have introduced into the discussion. I have lost count of all the times you have done this in one discussion.

You are compelled to continually write these statements. Are you sure that you don't listen to Rush? You never really answered that question, despite the fact that you were the one who interjected him into the discussion.......

BiR

 

Stop me from being "intellectually dishonest" again, will you explain how when you claim:

That is NOT taking Kwanzaa "off the table" for discussion???

Ummm..."tools of the Devil"...

No bother, my pleasure. I did the direct thing for you last post, you're going back off on the tangents, but it's not my place to question the tangents I guess.

Good for you. I am not a LIBERAL. You are not the THREAD POLICE.

Direct answer time again : NO, I don't listen to him!

Back to the thread topic, Officer, here ya go:

http://cbs2.com/topstories/local_story_360101549.html



Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

Die, Kwanzaa, die!!!

 

<rolling eyes>
This is getting simultaneously ridiculous and mundane.

No, it's not. I have said, and you have reproduced the comment, that it is not my place to question the holiday. Why do you feel compelled to "de-legitimize" the celebration? You don't celebrate it, as it's your right, and the people who do celebrate it are leaving you alone, aren't they? You have made your disdain for the originator of this holiday abundantly clear.

"Taking Kwanzaa 'off the table' for discussion" is a viewpoint that you have interejected. I have never made this claim, and anyone who is reading along knows this is true.

It is glaringly obvious that you cannot grasp the concept of sarcasm, so for your benefit, I will cease from offering this. I guess I have overestimated you.

No, you have NOT answered my question. Claiming it in perpetuity doesn't change that fact.

 

<rolling eyes>

Emoticons + big text =

Liberal condescendation detected!

Kind of like Kwanzaa itself, then.

Because when you said it was not your place to question the phoney holiday, you meant that should apply to everyone as well.

You're (mis)speaking for "everyone" again. Collectivism, hard habit to break.

<rolling eyes>
Liberal condescendation detected!

Pardon?

Act like the thread police, you'll be treated like the thread police.

Intellectual dishonesty IS what Kwanzaa's all about. Speaking of which...

I edited it to a more acceptable link, the Snow article was everywhere. So it speaks nothing, except that some white racist site linked to it, so did dailykos.

Now you got one. Let's sing:

De-legitimizing Kwanzaa's is a sport from the left as well as the right, why would any modern-day liberal want anything to do with it, much less defend it?

http://www.textbookleague.org/114kwanz.htm

I really have to go, but, you know, Rush Limbaugh's not that special when all's said and done. God Bless you.

No, I don't listen to Rush, he's your obsession AFAIK. Really. Because when you said it was not your place to question the phoney holiday, you meant that should apply to everyone as well...only conclusion I can reach, don't you see?


Kwanzaa's a made-up holiday.

Die, Kwanzaa, die!!!