Featured The Time is Near - He who is Righteous will be Righteous still

BobRyan · Nov 10, 2013

And what about this?

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Not everyone will agree with me on the two-natures at war in Romans 7 for the born-again saint who "with my mind - I serve the Law of God" -- where the solution is found in Romans 8.

But in Rev 22:10-11 we have agreement that the "holy will be holy still" is a kind of OSAS - and yet according to the text itself it is future. It is a future change according to the text, just as the text says about the future change where the lost no longer convert to become saved saints.

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Rev 22 NASB
10 And he *said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

11 Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”

Rev 22 KJV
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Notice that this speaks of a future time when the wicked will no longer be converted to the Gospel and when the righteous will no longer be subject to backsliding into wickedness and rebellion against God and the loss of salvation.

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Until that point in time though we DO have the changes - the wicked turn to righteousness and the saints fall from grace, severed from Grace, forgiveness revoked - lose salvation.

BobRyan · Nov 10, 2013

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Paul said in Phil 3 that "as a Pharisee" (which is not the state of an infant by any measure) "As to the righteousness that comes through the law - found blameless".

4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

And in Romans 7 "I was once alive apart from the law".

In neither case does he say "mistakenly believed to be"

For apart from the law sin was dead. 9I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
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Winman said: ↑

You are supporting my argument, Paul was not unable to express what he really meant to say. As a Pharisee, he was blameless.

Folks think that all the Pharisees were horrible hypocrites, that is not true, many were sincerely devout and lived about as holy a life as a person could possibly do.
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Paul describes his pre-converted life as "chief of sinners" at the same point where in Phil 3 he says that from his own POV at the time - he was "blameless".

In other words he did not realize his true condition at the time - until on the road to Damascus.

1 Tim 1
13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

Acts 22
3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated under Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God just as you all are today. 4 I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and putting both men and women into prisons, 5 as also the high priest and all the Council of the elders can testify. From them I also received letters to the brethren, and started off for Damascus in order to bring even those who were there to Jerusalem as prisoners to be punished.

Acts 26

9 “So then, I thought to myself that I had to do many things hostile to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, but also when they were being put to death I cast my vote against them. 11 And as I punished them often in all the synagogues, I tried to force them to blaspheme;and being furiously enraged at them, I kept pursuing them even to foreign cities.

So then he 'viewed himself" as "blameless" at the time - but later when the true light of right-vs-wrong was presented to him - he found that he was the chief of sinners, guilty of attacking Christ in the person of His saints.

in Christ,

Bob

Winman · Nov 10, 2013

I really don't think you should go to other books where Paul is speaking of other subjects to explain Romans 7.

In Romans 7 he is explaining how the law brought death. The law itself was good, but sin taking advantage and opportunity by the law wrought death.

Now, to die you have to be alive. You cannot be born dead. Now we often say someone is stillborn or born dead, but that person was once alive, even if just for a few minutes or days.

Likewise, you cannot spiritually die unless you were first spiritually alive. It is that simple. And this is clearly what Paul is speaking about in Romans7.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Paul is not telling us a story here how he mistakenly believed he was righteous in the past and then one day discovered he was born dead in sin.

No, Paul is simply explaining how sin used and exploited the law to slay him. But you have to be alive for someone to kill you or slay you.

He is explaining to the Jews that the law is good, but the law cannot give life, unless you are absolutely perfect, which no man is. No, although the law is good and holy, it brings death, because every man has sinned and come short of the glory of God.

But again, you must be alive to die.

Original Sin is FALSE DOCTRINE.

BobRyan · Nov 10, 2013

Winman said: ↑

I really don't think you should go to other books where Paul is speaking of other subjects to explain Romans 7.
Click to expand...

Paul said in Romans 7 "I was alive once - apart from the law".

One of the foundational "rules" for proper exegesis is to not only look at what the author said in immediate context - but to also look at the author speaking to the same subject in his other writings. The final level is to look at what other authors in the book say on the same subject.

So while some people may object to exegesis that includes levels 2 and 3 above - it is the accepted method for exegeting the text.

In Romans 7 he is explaining how the law brought death. The law itself was good, but sin taking advantage and opportunity by the law wrought death.

Now, to die you have to be alive. You cannot be born dead. Now we often say someone is stillborn or born dead, but that person was once alive, even if just for a few minutes or days.

Likewise, you cannot spiritually die unless you were first spiritually alive. It is that simple. And this is clearly what Paul is speaking about in Romans7.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Paul is not telling us a story here how he mistakenly believed he was righteous in the past and then one day discovered he was born dead in sin.

No, Paul is simply explaining how sin used and exploited the law to slay him. But you have to be alive for someone to kill you or slay you.

He is explaining to the Jews that the law is good, but the law cannot give life, unless you are absolutely perfect, which no man is. No, although the law is good and holy, it brings death, because every man has sinned and come short of the glory of God.

But again, you must be alive to die.

Original Sin is FALSE DOCTRINE.
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original sin teaches that humans born today - are held to be guilty of Adam's sin by God - and thus need infant Baptism etc.

You are correct to say that the doctrine of original sin is false doctrine.

But the fact that all humanity is born with a sinful nature, a Romans 3 "bent" toward sin, a nature that is wicked at the start and that does not fully comprehend the scope of difference between right and wrong - is a fact of the fallen condition of man.

This is why Paul could say of his unsaved state - that he supposed himself to be "blameless" as for the works of the law.

Phil 3:4
If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

You point out that not all Pharisees were wicked. And certainly that is true. But Paul also describes his pre-Christian conditions for us so as not to leave us in any doubt.

Acts 26
9 “So then, I thought to myself that I had to do many things hostile to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 10 And this is just what I did in Jerusalem; not only did I lock up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests, but also when they were being put to death I cast my vote against them. 11 And as I punished them often in all the synagogues, I tried to force them to blaspheme;and being furiously enraged at them, I kept pursuing them even to foreign cities.

As you point out in your post - "all have sinned" and therefore by the Law "all are bound for the lake of fire" so "all need a Savior". Paul did not see himself as being in need of Baptism, or of a Savior, or guilty enough to go to hell fire as a non-Christian persecutor of the saints forcing them to blaspheme Christ. He himself admits to this.

in Christ,

Bob

Yeshua1 · Nov 13, 2013

Winman said: ↑

I really don't think you should go to other books where Paul is speaking of other subjects to explain Romans 7.

In Romans 7 he is explaining how the law brought death. The law itself was good, but sin taking advantage and opportunity by the law wrought death.

Now, to die you have to be alive. You cannot be born dead. Now we often say someone is stillborn or born dead, but that person was once alive, even if just for a few minutes or days.

Likewise, you cannot spiritually die unless you were first spiritually alive. It is that simple. And this is clearly what Paul is speaking about in Romans7.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Paul is not telling us a story here how he mistakenly believed he was righteous in the past and then one day discovered he was born dead in sin.

No, Paul is simply explaining how sin used and exploited the law to slay him. But you have to be alive for someone to kill you or slay you.

He is explaining to the Jews that the law is good, but the law cannot give life, unless you are absolutely perfect, which no man is. No, although the law is good and holy, it brings death, because every man has sinned and come short of the glory of God.

But again, you must be alive to die.

Original Sin is FALSE DOCTRINE.
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No it is not, your view on this is not biblical, for it leaves us basically stating that we are not sinners until we chose to do that, that we are reconciled to God until we chose to sin and depart from Him, and that jesus was born EXACTLY same way we all are. he and us are same as to our own natures!

evangelist-7 · Nov 13, 2013

Winman said: ↑

In Romans 7 he is explaining how the law brought death.
Click to expand...

Yes, this was just after he very craftily warned them in Romans 6:15-23
that they were headed for eternal death, if they didn't STOP being slaves of sin!
.

Winman · Nov 13, 2013

Y1 said:

No it is not, your view on this is not biblical, for it leaves us basically stating that we are not sinners until we chose to do that,
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Correct, sin is a choice, not something you are born with;

Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Y1 said:

that we are reconciled to God until we chose to sin and depart from Him,
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There is no need to be reconciled to God unless you are separated from him.

The fact we are not born separated from God is proved by 1 Pet 2:25 that says a believer is now RETURNED to Jesus. You could not return to Jesus unless you were originally with Jesus.

1 Pet 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Y1 said:

and that jesus was born EXACTLY same way we all are. he and us are same as to our own natures!
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Yes, the scriptures say Jesus came with "the same" flesh as us, and he took on the nature of the seed of Abraham.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Now, perhaps you would like to show everyone scripture that says we are born sinners, that we are born separated from God in sin, and that Jesus was made differently from us?

This should be very easy for you to do, because you say it all the time. You wouldn't say something that is not shown in scripture would you?

Winman · Nov 13, 2013

evangelist-7 said: ↑

Yes, this was just after he very craftily warned them in Romans 6:15-23
that they were headed for eternal death, if they didn't STOP being slaves of sin!
.
Click to expand...

Yes, but what you fail to understand is that the moment you trust Christ you are baptized into his body, and you die with him to the law and sin. The law and sin no longer have dominion over you.

Paul explains this with an analogy of marriage, once a husband is dead, he no longer has dominion over his wife and she is free to marry another.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

This is what you do not understand, we are dead to the law and sin, we are no longer bound to it, it has no power over us. We are now married to Jesus, married to the Spirit.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

The law and therefore sin no longer owns you, it has no power over you whatsoever. This is what you do not understand, you are DEAD to the law. When someone dies because they were driving drunk, they do not give the dead person a ticket for drunk driving.

evangelist-7 · Nov 13, 2013

Winman said: ↑

Yes, but what you fail to understand is that the moment you trust Christ you are baptized into his body,
and you die with him to the law and sin. The law and sin no longer have dominion over you.

The law and therefore sin no longer owns you, it has no power over you whatsoever.
This is what you do not understand, you are DEAD to the law.
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Here I go again ... How many times do I need to post this here ...

Paul is telling them that they ARE (yes, they ARE more than capable of being)
slaves of God, slaves of obedience, and slaves of righteousness!

Gee, what more could those nice little Romans ask for?

I'll tell you what ...

But, they don't ask for what they want ... they just do it ... they continue to be slaves of sin!

The whole of Romans 6:15-23 was written:
1) to explain why they do not HAVE to sin any more
2) to warn of eternal death, if they do not STOP being slaves of sin

Qvestion: Is this too deep for everyone in Baptist country, or does someone (anyone) see it?
.

BobRyan · Nov 13, 2013

Winman said: ↑

Yes, but what you fail to understand is that the moment you trust Christ you are baptized into his body, and you die with him to the law and sin. The law and sin no longer have dominion over you. .
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Indeed. In fact your new nature does not sin (does not choose to sin) as we see in 1John 3. But since you have both the sinful nature AND the new nature as a saved saint - the battle to "put to death the deeds of the flesh" is on - as Paul says in Romans 8.

In Romans 7 Paul says that since he is in full agreement with the Law of God - serving the Law of God with his mind - that "it is no longer I who am doing it but sin that dwells in me". This cannot be said by any lost person - that they are not the one sinning for they are doing it 'in every sense" of the word.

In Eph 6 Paul describes it as outright war where we need to decided to put on the armor of God "And having done everything to stand firm".

And as Paul says to Timothy "AS you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and those who hear you".

Paul says "He presses forward - forgetting those things which are behind... in or that I may ATTAIN to the resurrection" Phil 3 (of the righteous)

And of course in 1Cor 9 "I do all things for the sake of the Gospel that I may be a fellow partaker OF IT... I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified".

This is why in Romans 11 Paul says to those "who stand only by your faith... to fear for if He did not spare them neither will he spare you... but He is able to graft them in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief".

Yet as we see in Rev 22:10-11 there comes a time when that crossing over between lost and saved and saved back to lost - ends. No more lost crossing over to become saved 'let him who is filthy be filthy still".

This happens because of the Rev 15:8 event where the sanctuary in heaven is closed, and Christ ceases in his role as High Priest. Nothing left then but the Rev 16 - 7 last plagues.

in Christ,

Bob

Winman · Nov 13, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

Indeed. In fact your new nature does not sin (does not choose to sin) as we see in 1John 3. But since you have both the sinful nature AND the new nature as a saved saint - the battle to "put to death the deeds of the flesh" is on - as Paul says in Romans 8.

In Eph 6 Paul describes it as outright war where we need to decided to put on the armor of God "And having done everything to stand firm".

And as Paul says to Timothy "AS you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and those who hear you".

Paul says "He presses forward - forgetting those things which are behind... in or that I may ATTAIN to the resurrection" Phil 3 (of the righteous)

And of course in 1Cor 9 "I do all things for the sake of the Gospel that I may be a fellow partaker OF IT... I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified".

This is why in Romans 11 Paul says to those "who stand only by your faith... to fear for if He did not spare them neither will he spare you... but He is able to graft them in AGAIN if they do not continue in unbelief".

Yet as we see in Rev 22:10-11 there comes a time when that crossing over between lost and saved and saved back to lost - ends. No more lost crossing over to become saved 'let him who is filthy be filthy still".

This happens because of the Rev 15:8 event where the sanctuary in heaven is closed, and Christ ceases in his role as High Priest. Nothing left then but the Rev 16 - 7 last plagues.

in Christ,

Bob
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Well, I don't agree with you that we can lose our salvation. We are born again of "incorruptible seed". You do know what "incorruptible" means don't you?

The scriptures also say we are dead to the law. Paul uses the analogy of a woman being married, once her husband is dead she is no longer bound to him. Likewise, we are dead to the law and no more bound to it. This is where you and a few others seem to lack understanding.

No, we are dead to the law and now married to Christ. We have become one spirit with him. We cannot lose our salvation.

But you are correct about the work of Jesus as our High Priest being necessary.

BobRyan · Nov 13, 2013

The Law of God condemns the lost - to the 2nd death - lake of fire, hell. We die to that sentence when we are buried with Christ in Baptism and then raised with him into life Romans 6.

Paul said Christ died to sin and so did we - in Romans 6.

And yet... we still... sin. Romans 7 introduces the marriage first bound to the condemnation of the law and then later joined to Christ - but even then Paul says he is in a war with sin that is "in him".

But in Rev 22:10-11 we see a time predicted when there will be no more crossing over.

Instead of saying "the filthy will be filthy still and of course the righteous are already remaining righteous still so not change tere" the text tells us that this change where no more crossing over takes place, happens to BOTH groups! Both the cases of the filthy and the case of the righteous are explicitly listed.

The lost no longer become saved.

The saved no longer "Fall from Grace... Severed from Christ" Gal 5:4 - to become lost again.

in Christ,

Bob

Winman · Nov 13, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

The Law of God condemns the lost - to the 2nd death - lake of fire, hell. We die to that sentence when we are buried with Christ in Baptism and then raised with him into life Romans 6.

Paul said Christ died to sin and so did we - in Romans 6.

And yet... we still... sin. Romans 7 introduces the marriage first bound to the condemnation of the law and then later joined to Christ - but even then Paul says he is in a war with sin that is "in him".

But in Rev 22:10-11 we see a time predicted when there will be no more crossing over.

Instead of saying "the filthy will be filthy still and of course the righteous are already remaining righteous still so not change tere" the text tells us that this change where no more crossing over takes place, happens to BOTH groups! Both the cases of the filthy and the case of the righteous are explicitly listed.

The lost no longer become saved.

The saved no longer "Fall from Grace... Severed from Christ" Gal 5:4 - to become lost again.

in Christ,

Bob
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We are dead to the law, it no longer holds us. We are now married to Christ.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

This is where folks go wrong when they read about us being a "servant" of sin. This does not mean we are compelled to sin, but it does mean like a slave we are "sold to sin".

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

This is why Romans 7 cannot be Paul writing from the perspective of a saved man, a saved regenerated man no longer belongs to sin, but has been made free.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

We did belong to sin like a slave did in the ancient world. A slave is not compelled to do everything his master says, a slave can be disobedient, a slave can run away. Nevertheless, your master owned you and could recapture you, there was no escape.

Jesus bought us with his blood from sin. We no longer belong to sin, we belong to Jesus. Whereas sin only paid the wage of death, Jesus gives us the gift of life.

We died with Jesus to the law and sin. It no longer has a hold over us, we are free from it.

This is what you fail to understand.

Winman · Nov 13, 2013

evangelist-7 said: ↑

Here I go again ... How many times do I need to post this here ...

Paul is telling them that they ARE (yes, they ARE more than capable of being)
slaves of God, slaves of obedience, and slaves of righteousness!

Gee, what more could those nice little Romans ask for?

I'll tell you what ...

But, they don't ask for what they want ... they just do it ... they continue to be slaves of sin!

The whole of Romans 6:15-23 was written:
1) to explain why they do not HAVE to sin any more
2) to warn of eternal death, if they do not STOP being slaves of sin

Qvestion: Is this too deep for everyone in Baptist country, or does someone (anyone) see it?
.
Click to expand...

No, Paul is saying they were servants to sin, but they have obeyed the gospel and now have become servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

You are not getting it, a transfer of ownership has occured here. Because of sin, men were sold to sin, they belonged to sin just like a slave sold in the ancient markets. And the wage of sin is death.

But the moment they trusted Jesus they were baptized into his body and died to sin. Sin no longer owned them and had dominion over them. The law no longer binds them and holds dominion over them. Now they belong to Jesus, they have become the servants or slaves of righteousness, and the gift of Jesus is eternal life.

If you have trusted Christ you no longer have to keep the law. You have been made free from the law.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Paul said if you want to keep the law, then you must keep it perfectly. Good luck.

steaver · Nov 13, 2013

Winman said: ↑

Paul said if you want to keep the law, then you must keep it perfectly. Good luck.
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And he also said ye who would be justified by the law have fallen from grace. They kinda skip over that part when they bring up fallen from grace, not realizing it speaks of those against salvation through grace alone apart from works.

BobRyan · Nov 14, 2013

steaver said: ↑

And he also said ye who would be justified by the law have fallen from grace. .
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Indeed - and yet even Steaver had to admit that "seeking to be justified by law" is NOT

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus".

1John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

John 14:15 "If you love Me KEEP My Commandments".

Matt 7 "by their fruits you shall know them... NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Faither"

James 2 "You seen then that a man is justified by works and NOT by faith alone".

In other words even Steaver had to bring himself to admit at one point that Paul is not condemning his own teaching or the teaching of his fellow Bible writers.

This is the "silent" part of Steaver's post hoping we "will not notice" but he already came out on this subject and admitted that Gal 5:4 cannot be taken as a condemnation of Obedience to the Word of God when these texts were brought up.

And so as the thread title points out in Rev 22:10-11 there IS a future point in time in which no more "crossing over" takes place. No more 'filthy become righteous' by the lost accepting the Gospel and no more "Righteous becoming unrighteous" by falling from grace, being severed from Christ, losing salvation.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Nov 14, 2013

Winman said: ↑

Paul said if you want to keep the law, then you must keep it perfectly. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

John said that the saints are to "sin not" 1John 2:1.

John said that the new creation, the new creature 'does not sin'.

John said in 1John 3:4 that "sin is transgression of the Law".

And Paul said that you are a "slave of the one you serve, either of sin resulting in death or of righteousness resulting in life" Romans 6.

Paul said that only the unsaved, fallen heart "does not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN it" Romans 8.

Jesus said in Matt 5 not to even think that His purpose was to come and abolish the Law of God.

The "Baptist Confession of Faith" states that the TEN Commandments are the moral law given to mankind in Eden and still binding - even on the saints today.

(So also does the "Westminster Confession of Faith" admit to this.)

in Christ,

Bob

DHK · Nov 14, 2013

BobRyan said: ↑

The "Baptist Confession of Faith" states that the TEN Commandments are the moral law given to mankind in Eden and still binding - even on the saints today.

(So also does the "Westminster Confession of Faith" admit to this.)

in Christ,

Bob
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This is news to me Bob. You have now become "sola confessionala"
You like the Baptist Confessions so much you have converted from the SDA heresy to a Baptist Confession only position.
As for me, my position has always been sola scriptura, and always will be.
I don't think I have ever even read one of those confessions all the way through.

evangelist-7 · Nov 14, 2013

Winman said: ↑

The whole of Romans 6:15-23 was written:
1) to explain why they do not HAVE to sin any more
2) to warn of eternal death, if they do not STOP being slaves of sin

You are not getting it, a transfer of ownership has occured here. Because of sin, men were sold to sin, they belonged to sin just like a slave sold in the ancient markets. And the wage of sin is death.

But the moment they trusted Jesus they were baptized into his body and died to sin. Sin no longer owned them and had dominion over them. The law no longer binds them and holds dominion over them. Now they belong to Jesus, they have become the servants or slaves of righteousness, and the gift of Jesus is eternal life.

If you have trusted Christ you no longer have to keep the law. You have been made free from the law.
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Tink I'll leave Baptist Country ... Jus can't handle all of these moronic posts!

Truly, there are many other forums where the people are not as deceived & brainwashed with false doctrine!

.

steaver · Nov 14, 2013

evangelist-7 said: ↑

Tink I'll leave Baptist Country ... Jus can't handle all of these moronic posts!

Truly, there are many other forums where the people are not as deceived & brainwashed with false doctrine!

.
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The Mormon boards would LOVE to have you there!!

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