Featured The Time is Near - He who is Righteous will be Righteous still

No, it tells us a person cannot lose salvation in heaven. But that does not mean a person can lose salvation now.

You cannot simply make scripture say what you DESIRE it to say. This is what many here at BB do. They say Romans 3 teaches inability when it says no such thing.

Now, let's look at the scripture closely.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Now honestly Bob, does this verse say one word about a saved person being able to lose their salvation up until this day? Does it?

It simply tells you that the unsaved will forever remain filthy and unjust, and the saved will forever remain righteous and holy.

Don't read into scripture what is not there, this is how much false doctrine is formed.

 

I really don't understand what you are saying here. Could you rephrase this?

Well, the chapter begins with us in the New Jerusalem with a pure river of life and the tree of life.

Again, so what? It is simply saying the filthy and unjust will continue to be that way still, the righteous and holy will continue to be that way still. That is all it says.

Because there is much scripture that says a lost person can accept Christ and be saved.

That is why I do not believe a person can lose salvation in this life, because I believe there is MUCH scripture that shows our salvation is secure.

The unsaved cannot get saved NOW after death.

You are adding to what it says. I try never to do that.

No, the lost cannot get saved now after death, nothing changes for them either.

This verse simply tells us the lost will never be able to get saved in the next life, and the saved will not be able to become lost in the next life. That is all it says.

Any lost person can accept Christ in this life at any time before they die, even on their deathbed. But once they die it is too late.

No, Romans 11 is a warning to the Gentiles as a people that they will be cut off like the Jews if they go off generally in unbelief the way the Jews did.

Romans 11 is not speaking of individuals, it is contrasting the Jews and Gentiles as a whole.

 

That's okay, but IMO the new "baker's dozen" thread handles it mucho better ...
... even though 'tis very concise: only listing a small sample of available passages ...
after allski, 13 is only 13!
.

 

As usual you jerk scripture right out of its context:

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


Verse 11 is referring to saved people in various stages at the point of Christ's return. The issue is "REWARDS" (v. 12) not eternal wrath. Paul refers to this precise time and these rewards in 1 Cor. 3:11-15. Saved people will be rewarded DIFFERENTLY among themselves and it is determined in this life time with no chance of change at the coming of Christ.

1. 1 Cor. 3:12-15 speaks of DIFFERENCES between the saved and different rewards.

2. Jesus is simply saying that rewards are set in stone by the condition of the saved person when time runs out.

3. The fact that saved people can be found in all stages of progressive sanctification and none can be found perfectly sanctified demands there are degrees of sin found in their life that has not been removed by glorification.

4. Not all the saved live in the city (Rev. 21:24) nor eat of the fruit of the tree of life (Rev. 22:2) as those outside the city who are "saved" (Rev. 21:24) partake only of the leaves. Hence, you can be "saved" and dwell on the new earth OUTSIDE the city and you can be "saved" and not partake of the fruit of the tree of life but only the "leaves."

5. For rewards in heaven there must be differences between the saved where salvation is not the issue but rather the differences are found in the "works" performed as in 1 Cor. 3:12-15 as there are various materials that Paul explicitly says represent various "works" of saved people which do not have any association with eternal salvation as Paul considers all works "burned" and yet the worker is "saved".

 

Revelation 22 is when this present world is all over (Rev 21:1). There will not be new people born. Everyone who was ever born has died, and now we are in the eternal state. And verse 11 is simply saying the filthy and unjust will remain filthy and unjust, and that the holy and righteous will remain holy and righteous.

You can't just add to scripture what it is not saying, and that is what you are attempting to do.

Just read scripture for what it says.

 

Total nonsense, saved people are neither filthy or unjust. This is speaking of the "dead" that were cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 21:8).

Rev 22:11 is simply saying the unsaved, the filthy and unjust will remain in this state for eternity, and that the saved, the righteous and the holy shall remain in this state for eternity.

And those saved persons outside the city are allowed in.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

The nations that are saved will be allowed to enter into the city. It is those who are cast into the lake of fire outside the city that cannot enter in.

And Revelations 22:2 does not say the nations that are saved cannot eat of the tree of life.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

All of the saved will be allowed to enter the city and eat of the tree of life.

 

I guess Bob doesn't like your approach E7 of asking for him to list the works required for eternal life. Maybe he is not the buddy you think he is for agreeing with your doctrine after all.

I'm sure you noticed how he deflected your direct question, as everyone else who lives here knows his play book.

Maybe you could give him the list of works, spell it out for him, and then say "Do you agree Bob?" But be sure to ask for a yes or no, but I doubt you will get one.

I would be interested to see your list of works.

 

It is a mystery to me why so many people torture and twist Scripture in an attempt to prove that the clear teaching of Scripture is wrong and that God is unable to keep His adopted children for whom Jesus Christ died. Is it that they believe that salvation is not by grace alone but by a little grace and a lot of works? I know that Roman Catholics and Mormons believe such! Certainly Arminians believe that God needs a little, or perhaps a lot, of help in the salvation of His elect.

Now it is possible that the unsaved person who recognizes that there is good and evil may wonder why a Sovereign God allows certain things to happen. But once a person has been saved by the Grace of God, has been given a new heart through regeneration, has been adopted into the family of God, he should understand that the will and work of Satan is not sovereign over the will and work of God but that Satan is in subjection to God and that God will keep those who are His.

The Apostle John in his 1st Epistle tells us that the children of God will sin on occasion:
1 John 1:8-10
8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The Apostle Paul also deals with this truth in Romans 6 and 7.

It must be terrifying for anyone to believe that God might abandon them to damnation at any time because of sin, great or small.

 

Yes, I have lots of thoughts. The first one is that you have more faith in a Pharisee than the Lord. My second thought is that your Bible ends at the book of Malachi.

Why is it so difficult for you to understand that God is the Creator, the Sustainer, and the Author of salvation? How many times does He say that His grace is sufficient, that He is all we need, faith and trust in Him? Instead of trusting God to guide our lives and make us more like Jesus each day, it is obvious you think we become Marvel Comic superheroes, and in our own power, endure to the end. At least we better, or we will be in a Superman cape burning in hell.

What is your problem, and for that matter, the problem with your whole denomination and its retarded doctrine? Your theology and posts have more in common with Buddhism and Hinduism than Christianity. Through your daily, persistent, human efforts, you one day are going to become part of the great spiritual force in the sky.

Let me ask you this? How does one establish a relationship with the Creator by burdensome rules to follow in your own power for your entire life. In the first place, you cannot do it, and if you could, there would be no relationship, no love, only resentment. Think about trying to make a go of a successful marriage that way.

Yes, the righteous will be righteous in the end, but through the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit, not the feeble efforts of flawed, sinful man. Those that are not righteous in the end did not lose their salvation. They were never saved.

In all of your 27000 posts, the only thing you have accomplished is to teach Baptists that the SDA are more wacked out than the RCC.

 

I have long believed that the term "Once Saved, Always Saved", though true, is a poor way to state the Biblical truth that those God redeems, justifies, and adopts as children He will keep in His care for eternity. The doctrine that God is unable to keep that which He promised is a pathetic, devilish doctrine.

 

was Jesus a liar when he said that ALL the father gave to him willbe raised up, that NONE shall ever perish then?

 

Goes back to those advocating true free Will wanting to maintain that even if it means the the sovereign Will of God is unable to overcome the "free will" of man to reject Christ and choose to stay lost!

 

Were the Romans terrified by Paul's teaching in Rom 6:15-23?
Nah ... t'was like how Christians today view their sin.

But, I'm curious ... can you "see" in Rom 6:15-23 ...
how Paul is warning them to STOP being slaves of sin, or else!
(He speaks of eternal death 3 times in 9 verses.)
.