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THE TITHES.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Alex2165, Nov 7, 2020.

  1. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    THE TITHES.

    Do collecting tithes in the church Biblical or Not?

    As the typical hypocrites, the church adapted collecting tithes long time ago. Usually church required 10% (tithe) and always referring to the Old Testament as an excuse and as a Commandment of GOD to do so, while on the other hand generally ignoring Old Testament, declaring it obsolete and no longer valid.

    Of course collecting money (tithes), corrupted and greedy church completely validated it for themselves, despite the fact that this is the Old Testament Statute, because this one they cannot miss and pass over it, because it is too valuable to loos.

    So only one Commandment from the Old Testament, the Commandment concerning tithes, church adapted without questions ask, to enrich and to benefit themselves from the Law of Moses which they basically ignoring and found not useful anymore!

    As it written in James, if you break one Commandments of the Law you are guilty against entire Law, how much more if you violate entire Law, and adapt only one Commandments from it, and use it in the wrong, dishonest, and corrupt way!

    James 2.10
    10.Whoever keeps the whole Law but fails in one point, has become accountable for all of it.

    But in truth, as a matter of fact, tithes are never been in the form of money, not even close, but always in the form of produce of the field and animals from the flock.


    ~ The Tithe can be made from large and small animals, dough, fruits, wine, oil, honey, and from the harvest of grain cultures (Leviticus 27.30-34) (Deuteronomy 14.23) (2Chronicles 31.5-6) (Nehemiah 10.37, 13.4-5).

    ~ Tithes from the fields were collected every year (Deuteronomy 14.22), and at the end of every third year Tithes collected from produce of that year and deposited in towns. (Deuteronomy 14.28, 26.12).

    ~ Tithes were considered as a payment to Levites for their services (Numbers 18.21.31).

    ~ From Tithes that were given to Levites they took the tenth of the tithes and stored them in the chambers of the storehouse (Nehemiah 10.38), and from these Tithes Levites presented offering to the Lord, a Tithe from the Tithe (Numbers 18.26-29).

    ~ Tithes also served as humanitarian care when at the end of the third year after paying their own tithes to the Lord the rest of the tithes were given to the poor and the strangers, orphans, and widows (Deuteronomy 14.29, 26.12-13).

    ~ If the Tabernacle or the Temple located too far for a person to reach in order to give his Tithe, he was allowed to exchange his Tithe for money, and then he will reach the Holy Place, he then may buy for this money a Tithe, (means animal or field product) and present it to Levites and to the Lord (Deuteronomy 14.24-26).


    Tithes can be divided on major groups:

    The Physical tithes collected for physical mortal men, for Levites and for the needy and poor.

    The Spiritual tithes such as: Justice, Mercy, Faithfulness (Matthew 23.23), and the love for GOD (Luke 11.42), collected in the hearts of men and presented before GOD in the deeds of Charity as Compassion, Mercy, Justice, and Faithfulness, all deriving from the love for GOD.


    Matthew 23.23
    23."Woe to you scribes and Pharisees hypocrites for you tithe, mint, and dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the Law: Justice, and Mercy, and Faithfulness, these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

    Luke 11.42
    "42.But woe to you Pharisees! You pay tithe of mint and rue ("rue - from its thick and fleshly leaves". KSB, Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, page 57), and every kind garden herb, and yet disregard Justice and the Love of GOD, but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

    These two passages of Mathew 23.23 and Luke 11.42 can summarized and in such ways as well:

    "Woe to you corrupted and greedy church clergy hypocrites, for collecting money-tithes and have neglected and disregard weightier provisions of the Law, Justice, and Mercy, and Faithfulness, and the love of GOD, but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

    Another excuse that church usually made for collecting "tithes" is to declare:

    "GOD loves a cheerful giver" (2Corinthains 9.6-7)

    But this subject I will save for some other time.
     
  2. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    If you don't want to tithe - then don't. It's not a regulation.

    I tithe and always have and give above that. But that's just me.

    No need to call the church greedy and be so negative about it. You seem pretty angry about it.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    Too be honest, Christ doesn't want a thing from the covetous. But Christ will bless a cheerful giver abundantly.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
    1 Corinthians 16:2
     
  5. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Tithe (and offering) is required by God, and for the Christian, even as it was for Adam in the beginning.

    See Malachi 3:1-18, to begin with. As it is most plain.
     
  6. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    GOD loves a cheerful giver" (2Corinthains 9.6-7)

    But this subject I will save for some other time.

    How about some cheerful to God right here?
     
  7. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    Yep, cheerful in giving tithe in return, and cheerful in giving freewill offering together.
     
  8. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Bloanie! Acts 15 give us the only requirements from OT law that are required of Christians-- to abstain from unlbled meat, from meat sacrificed to idols, from animals strangeled, from fornication, and from blood-- otherwise we follow the New Testament
    {which we do anyway if we follow what it says there).

    It has been quite some time since I have shared my experience on this board, so many readers likely have not read this before. Wondering about so many sermons about tithing, where inevitably Malachi 3 is the reference, that tithing = financial blessings, or in other words, you will be more financially secure if you give at least 10% of your income to the church than if you don't, I decided to test that, as the passage itself, quoting God, says to do, with a statistical test of hypothesis. So I began by graphing my weekly contributions and my weekly financial balance. While there was not a week-to-week 'match' to be seen, I compared them weeks and months apart, and found that there seemed to be a match in the graphs with my weekly contributions and my financial balance two months later. So being open-minded, I resolved to give at the minimun 10% of my weekly income to see what this does to my financial balance two months later; and I decided to do it for at least three months. Did it work? No. The correlation coefficient fell out and the confidence intevral, which I set at 95%, did not hold at all. Conclusion: financial blessings are not manipulative by tithing (as defined by the churches today). That is the conclusion of the test-- null. But the ultimate conclusion desired-- why?-- comes down to 2 possibilities. One is that the tithing system of bringing every tenth livestock animal and a tenth of crops for the Levites who worked the temple is not applicable today. The other is that the scripture was wrong all along. I go with the former.
     
  9. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    I do not eat "Bloanie!", as I am a Seventh-day Adventist (and as such do not tell others to eat it either). First of all, Acts 15 is not the final end-all be-all of the requirements upon Christians (since there are many things listed in other Epistles, that are not listed in Acts 15). It is the minimum, beginning, things which were needful at the time, as those were the issues being raised then. Everyone would learn more as they studied the word of God:

    Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
    Notice, please, that the Gentiles (and Jews), were "turned (repented) unto God", which means that they turned away from their unfaithfulness toward God, their sin (breaking God's Law, Ten Commandments), self (selfishness), & and turned to God their Creator and Redeemer:

    Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
    Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
    Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
    Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
    Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
    Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
    Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
    Now, go back and read again Malachi, which God just stated that he was to "build again", that which was "fallen down" and in "ruins".

    Tithe is required, as is offering in the NT, especially for the Christian, along with so many other things. Malachi 3 is clear. Start in verse 1. Read slowly. Read carefully. Read prayerfully. When you do, you will notice the actual context of Malachi 3 and the Tithe/Offering therein.
     
  10. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    But you sure live it!
     
  11. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    Scarlett wrote:
    "If you don't want to tithe - then don't. It's not a regulation.
    I tithe and always have and give above that. But that's just me.
    No need to call the church greedy and be so negative about it. You seem pretty angry about it."

    Yes, I am angry about it, and it is nothing wrong to be angry at corruption, deceit, and greed. If you are not angry at abominations whatever it may be, you should take a close look at your stand in Christ.

    I am sure that Christ was angry many time too with people and primarily with the leaders for their corruption and greed, He even overturned tables of sellers in the Temple. His anger was a righteous anger, and so is mine, because I see how dishonest church leaders fooling people, promising them greater return for their tithes.


    Even concept itself that you will have better financial return for your donated tithes is repugnant and disgusting. Money is the primary source of all evil and the church full of it.

    1Timothy 6.10
    10."The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and in their eagerness to be rich some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains."

    I am nor forbidding giving tithes, you can donate as much as you want, but you cannot buy for you tithes GOD'S favor, prosperity, blessing, and your salvation.

    Above all, do you actually know where is you money go? If not, ask your minister. If your clergy would not tell you or give you very remote and unclear answer, then I may help you to open for you their dirty secret.

    1Corinthians 13.2-3
    3.If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. (NRSV)

    3.And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. (KSB) (GNB) (Gideons Bible) (Russian Bible)

    3.If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. (ESV)

    3.And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. (KJV)


    To Xisdraw.
    You wrote:
    "Too be honest, Christ doesn't want a thing from the covetous. But Christ will bless a cheerful giver abundantly."

    It is all depends what you give. Money would not bring you happiness on Earth, nor will lay your path to Heaven. GOD does not need your material possessions, He needs your soul. But those who need your money usually are crooks and they look for opportunity to enrich themselves at you expense.


    To SGO.
    You quoted 1Corinthians 16.2. Almost everyone I discuss this issue with quotes this passage, but it said nothing about tithes. You took it out of its context. First three verse in this chapter are talking about collection of the gifts for the saints. Gifts - not necessary means money, it can be in form of produces, food, and other material essentials for those in need.

    Such a form of help I completely support and applaud for, and I use it myself every time when I have opportunity to do so. This form of help also call as CHARITY, Works of Faith, GOD'S works, and for such a type of charity GOD loves cheerful giver.

    Those who give their tithes to the church, only "feeding fat cats" who live on you donations and live well, much better of those who donated to them. What kind of favor from GOD you expect when you give your money to make rich people even richer? Rich can help themselves, but those who are poor and in need surely will appreciate much more your help than church clergy, and the Lord will also notice it.

    You wrote:
    " How about some cheerful to God right here? "

    I would not delay your rush enthusiasm and your eagerness of impatience to know, lets do some cheering here.

    "GOD loves a cheerful giver", according to the theme of entire chapter 2Corinthains 9, it definitely relates to the contributions of food and other material things needed for the saints (Apostles of Christ and others) in Jerusalem who were persecuted for the name of Christ and become in need, donations mostly offered in form of food, and in some other material things, some money perhaps included, while no mention of money is recorded.

    Money can be accepted too, but it was not the major driving force of the donations, but mostly food, some clothes perhaps, personal items, and other things that served the purpose for those who are in hiding from authorities.

    The money that was donated to Christ and His Apostles, never been donated as a payment for anything, or as a payroll and wages for their ministry, and so for the saints, priests, missionaries, people of GOD, prophets, or to any other men who ministered and served the Lord.

    Paul and his associates also never received money as a payment or a salary for their services, they would never accepted such payments.


    To the shame of all minister and pastors today, it will be good to know that Paul and his associates work and support themselves, and even had enough material thins whatever it may be, to support others.

    So the saying, "GOD loves a cheerful giver", has been taken out of its context by hypocrites, greedy clergy, and those who do not understand this statement. The church leaders used majority of accumulated wealth for their own good and to pay salaries and wages to those who exactly like them.

    Such practice to collect money for doing the work of GOD already has been condemned in the Old Testament: (Micah 3.11).

    Jesus Christ also condemned such practice: (John 10.11-13).

    Apostle Peter specified that money has no part in the work and in the service of the Gospel as a payroll: (1Peter 5.1-4).

    Apostle Paul also clarified this subject and presented himself as an example of unconditional and honest worker of Christ in his missionary ministry, who would not accept money for his services for GOD, but the opposite, work with his own hands to support not only himself but even those who were companions with him on his missionary journeys: (Acts 20.33-36).
     
  12. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

    This had to be explained since GENTILES don't know what Jews do on Sabbath.
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Need that tithe money for weapons and abortions!


    In God We Trust, But In Securities We Invest | Advent Messenger

    "The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists has voted to pull out all of its stock investments from the weapons and firearms industries. They are cancelling their financial interests in companies whose profits come from the “sale of weapons, combat vehicles, munitions or other warfare systems.”"
     
  14. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Well-Known Member

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    A favour, if you please:

    Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.​

    Explain this verse (by scripture).
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 11

    7As these men were going away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8“But what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ palaces! 9“But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and one who is more than a prophet.

    10“This is the one about whom it is written,
    ‘BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU,
    WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.’

    11“Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12“From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force. 13“For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14“And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15“He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
     
  16. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Jesus explained it.
     
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