1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The unforgiveable Sin

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Prodigal Daughter, Feb 11, 2007.

  1. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,056
    Likes Received:
    1,006
    Faith:
    Baptist
    From what I’ve heard from Bapmom she is quite the evangelist so at this point might suggest that communicating via a message board, that things can get misunderstood as per their intended meanings.

    As for your feelings being something you never felt before I would certainly testify to having experienced that kind of feelings; a feeling of peace came over me that I had never known, this feeling is something that remains with me, I believe always will and will never be far away even during times of tribulations, and I will always treasure it.

    I think Bapmom may be thinking about maturing in faith which comes in knowing that these feelings do come from God and in them you “KNOW” that you are saved. To put it another way by example, in short from a conversation I had with a Baptist pastor telling me how he personally “knew” he was saved:

    He was being lead to confession by prayer being told: “if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Then after his confession he was asked by name, “***** ARE you saved?” His reply was something like, “well I think I am, I feel, I trust, I ect....”

    To make this short, he was told again and again to the point of frustration from this leader in this prayer, “if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” And as he confessed again, after this he was asked again, “***** ARE you saved?”

    All of a sudden, It clicked and he cried out, “YES, YES, I’m saved” You see he realized that he needed to “KNOW” that he was saved.
     
    #41 Benjamin, Feb 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2007
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Salvation encompasses our entire being...feelings and emotion included. Faith is that which is "hoped" for and not seen. While feelings do change all of the time, and satan can play with them, initially I believe all believers should have "felt" something. How can someone NOT feel the infusion of the Holy Spirit as He comes into them?
     
  3. Prodigal Daughter

    Prodigal Daughter New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    My thoughts exactly. It hit me like a whirlwind. I suddenly saw how wrong I was, and I cried like a baby. I have felt a great change within myself.

    Like i said earlier, I am not here to cause trouble. Yes, I was saved last Easter, but until Christmas, it was building. Now I know that I am a changed woman, and I know that I love God, and I know that God loves me. I came to this site to see the thoughts of other believers, so that I can learn from their example, and I can become stronger. I didnt come here to feel stupid for expressing my issues. Bapmom is quick to tell me Im wrong, but hasnt so much as welcomed me to the board.
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    It sounds like you have an awesome testimony! I would like to hear how God transformed you from serving the "god of this world" to the "God of the universe":godisgood:

    Welcome to the BB, btw. You'll run across some very strong personalities and beliefs on here (including me). Don't let anyone get at you, as I'm sure nobody means to be disrespectful or rude...just passionate about the God we serve.
     
  5. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0

    oh my, Prodigal Daughter,

    there was no fire and brimstone intended in my post at all. It is just so easy for us (ladies especially) to focus on our feelings when God tells us that our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked.

    I became quite concerned when you expressed what seemed to be doubts about whether you had committed an unpardonable sin. You say you know for sure that you will be in Heaven one day, and I am overjoyed to hear such. I always figure Id rather ask and be sure, risking offending a sister in Christ, rather than ignoring the concern and the possibility that a fellow human could be going to Hell. My asking you is not a doubt on my part, but rather an attempt to help you clarify the assurance for yourself.



    As Ive always understood this idea of the unpardonable sin, it is unpardonable because it prevents the person from being saved. If one is denying the working of the Holy Spirit, than how can they be saved? They can't. So by definition it is unpardonable.

    You sounded concerned that God might have excluded you from His love.......God is not that capricious. He does not put you here on earth in order to point others to Himself while at the same time keeping you from ever being saved. He wants ALL to be saved, and if, as you say, you have come to Him and trusted in Christ for yourself than you are a part of His family......no 2nd class citizenry. He loves you just as much as He loves everyone else.....no matter what you have done and no matter what has been done to you. Remember this too, God will fight for you as His child. You are on His side, and He is your Avenger, Hero, and Champion as well as the Saviour of your soul.
     
  6. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was saved at an early age, and didnt really feel all that different at that moment. Plus I come from a very Germanic family and we tend to try to suppress alot of that emotion....I guess it's scary for us. :laugh:

    Later I had to come to a time when I got assurance of my salvation. Im glad that people did not just try to convince me that I was already saved, but helped me go through it again step by step and truly understand it. At that point there was some emotion....mainly lots of fear being replaced by God's peace.
     
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Just a thought...could it be that you weren't really saved at the "early age" you mention? I'm not questioning your salvation at that point, just wondering...

    I guess I fail to see how the act of going from separation to God, to being indwelt by God cannot be felt.
     
  8. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,091
    Likes Received:
    0
    yes web, Ive often wondered if I didn't get saved until that later date. And honestly, I have no problem with that thought. I think it was probably when I was younger, and that's why I give the earlier time frame, because God worked with me alot through those years now that I look back.

    When salvation occurs at an early age, especially in the life of a child who is being raised by Christians, that separation from God is not so emotionally felt yet. So the contrast is not as big......do you know what I mean? This is partly why 2nd generation Christians very often "feel" (lol) the need to get assurance later in life.

    But you know, with today's emphasis on emotionalism I think there is some merit to going beyond the emotion and getting to the hard facts....for a moment at least. After the facts are dealt with, then the glorious emotions come. Ya know? :)
     
    #48 bapmom, Feb 13, 2007
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2007
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yeah, I do agree that some only focus on the emotion. That's why you have pentecostalism :D
     
  10. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
     
    #50 ituttut, Feb 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2007
  11. Flippo

    Flippo Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    Listen to the Pastor. He knows what he is talking about. Will not your stance allow we saved to become unsaved for there is a sin that Jesus could not take care of?

    I am sorry but I did not mean we can lose salvation. What I meant was rejecting God's salvation in the first place. If we reject Christ in the first place and never put our faith and trust in Him there is no forgiveness.
     
  12. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 28:21-22 the Apostles are to teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, and to observe all things I have commanded you.

    We know the two great love commandments give life to all the law and the prophets, as shown in Matthew 22:36-40.

    We find also in this last commission what He commands in Mark 16:16-20. 16 tell's those that don't believe are damned, but those that believe and are baptized shall be saved. 17 says these that believe and are baptized will cast out devils, and speak with new tongues. In 18 He tells them they can pick up poisonous snakes, and drink what can kill but it won't hurt them. They will just lay hands on those sick, and they will be made well. After Jesus ascended into heaven and sat on the right hand of God, verse 20 tells us the Apostles preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, confirming the word, and the signs followed.

    Luke 24:46-53 contains further commands to His Apostles in this "great commission" to His Apostles that are to preach the gospel He commands them to preach, first to the Jew beginning in Jerusalem, and then they are to spread this gospel to the whole world. In verse 46 tells of His suffering, and to rise from the dead the third day.

    In verse 47 He tells the gospel they are to preach in His name that of "repent, and remission of sins in all nations, and to begin at Jerusalem. 49 informs He sends His Father's promise on them to be empowered from on high, as they wait in the city of Jerusalem. He blesses them, then ascends into heaven, and the Apostles return to Jerusalem.

    We know in custom of the law the Jews go to the temple, and we see this in Acts 2:46. The Apostles are law abiding Apostles of Jesus Christ. In Acts 10 we see Peter is still of the law as to his eating habits (and later he is afraid of James for breaking the law of eating with Gentiles). Peter is still under the law in Acts 10:28. This is some years after Pentecost. But God is beginning to show him otherwise. We must acknowledge Peter is of the law, and knew nothing else but what he preached at Pentecost, just as is James of the Pentecostal church in Jerusalem. These all continued to circumcise, make blood sacrifice, and followed in the works of the Temple. Even Paul in order to try and bring some to Christ Jesus (Acts 21) endeavored to step into that "Kingdom Church" gospel of "blood sacrifice" in the temple, but God would not let him. God had warned Paul to not return to Jerusalem, but Paul did anyway, and paid for it.

    While the law of Moses was not preached by the Apostle's, neither was the gospel of Christ Jesus from heaven of believe on me and you will be saved, by the grace of God my Father through my faith, and my works.

    Yes as to your opening statement I admit, and I proclaim those were partakers of the Holy Ghost, and shouldn't you admit how they obtained the promise as shown in Luke above chapter 24, verse 49 of receiving the Holy Ghost? Did they not receive the Holy Ghost by the preaching of Peter as shown in Acts 2:38 of you must "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins", and you will receive the Holy Ghost? This is that gospel to the Jew if you believe Acts 2:38 to be the Word of God. They had to perform a work.

    No where in the above can we find "By Grace "through faith" are you saved", which is the preaching of the Cross.

    Scripture of believers in Jerusalem that received the Holy Ghost, and under law? Began in Acts 15, verse 5.
    I'll not argue this issue here, but I have never been able to put much faith in those who argue some scriptures are not part of original text, or give credence to statements that do not accept the Holy Spirit had a hand in writing the Bible, and in this particular instance decided to call His People Hebrews, when they really were not.

    No doubt you know many believe Mark 16 referenced above is not in the original. Where is their proof? Where is it and who has seen the original? What it is missing from is not the original.
    Thank you for this information Christian friend, but through faith is not preached until after Damascus Road, and we know Paul informs us the Jew is justified by faith, and the Gentile is justified through faith. All I'm doing is quoting scripture, divided out.

    I must stick with the Word of God in this matter. I see works of those of Pentecost in the above scripture furnished, and I see the keeping of the law of Moses by the Jews that are in the "Kingdom Church". James and the Apostles agree we of the "Body Church" should not carry those burdens. I have been permitted to see the "dispensational gospel" that Christ revealed to Paul.
     
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was a time of transition and it did not all happen in a moment but by the work of the Apostles by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Acts 8:
    14: Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
    15: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
    16: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
    17: Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

    Have to go to Hospital for a nuclear stress test, be back later. God Bless,
     
    #53 Brother Bob, Feb 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2007
  14. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    I pray the tests come back normal, Bob. Let us know...
     
  15. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    1
    I had one of those several months ago, Brother Bob. My prayers are with you.
     
  16. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank all of you, the heart test turned out good for someone in my condition, but I have to go back for some tests on the gall bladder now. Something is wrong but don't know what yet, but I am so glad its not the heart this time.
     
  17. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    1
    Glad your heart test is good. I had my gall bladder removed about a year ago. It's a lot easier on your body than heart surgery. :) My dad had 3 open heart surgeries and I speak from observation, not experience. God bless.
     
  18. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    We agree then that Acts is the bridge from one gospel to another, but I don't believe you see it.

    Don't know what you are trying to prove with the above Acts reference before Damascus Road. If it is of receiving the Holy Ghost in the manner shown, we are into another area, and does not affect us anyway, for we don't receive the Holy Ghost by water baptism, and we don't receive it by the laying on of hands.

    If what you are showing is meant to be an escape hatch of a Gentile having received the word and the Holy Ghost before Acts 9, it will not stand. We must keep in mind the Samaritans are of the Northern Tribe and are Israelites, not Gentiles, and they are not a true Jew, even as the ten Tribes are not Jews, but are Israelites. This is where even the best of the Theologians seem not to understand, or refuse to make distinction. No Israelite (even a Samarian) is a Gentile. They have the blood of Abraham in them, and they made covenant with God. No Gentile was ever asked by God to make covenant with Him after God chose His nation of Israel.


    Samaritans were preached to before Acts. In the first "great commission" Jesus gave commandment to not go the Samaritans or the Gentiles. Jesus makes distinction here and we must also. He separates the Samaritans from the Gentiles. His second "great commission" allowed the Samaritans, and Jesus preached to a Samaritan - John 4. But Gentile's were not allowed to hear the gospel of the "Kingdom Church" (yes there were proselytes) until after the house of Israel had accepted their King. It did not happen.


    Scripture cannot be found that John the Baptist, Jesus or any of His Apostles ever preached salvation to a Gentile, until that one time Peter was sent to Cornelius, after Damascus Road.


    Hope your stress test showed good results for you. I went to my Cardiologist Tuesday, and he wants me to have another one in a few months.
     
  19. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,723
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well there was the Ethiopian converted by Phillip before.
    I don't understand your thoughts on this. Acts and Damascus and Corneilus were before what took place in the Book of Hebrews so those in Hebrews were converted Jews and possibly some Gentiles. The fact remains that this was after Damascus, Corneilus, Pentecost and even so, there were some who had not converted but many had and were partakers of the Holy Ghost. Those who were still under the Law had not partaked of the Holy Ghost, it took a conversion to get that.
    After all is said and done. I don't believe they could fall and believe that God gave us this scripture in Hebrews to show us how impossible it is to fall. Also though, God felt it necessary to give us a warning! It seems all the events in Acts took place around 30 AD and Hebrew 60-90 AD.

    If I have the events mixed up or at the wrong times please tell me where I am wrong? No one seems to be willing to say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Paul wrote Hebrews.

    My tests went great on the heart but still having pain, so I am going back now for a gall bladder test. I hope all goes well with your tests. Have you ever had heart surgery? I have had it twice already.
     
    #59 Brother Bob, Feb 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2007
  20. ituttut

    ituttut New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    2,674
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes there is no doubt about this. But Phillip is of the "Kingdom Church" of Christ, for he is of the by faith justification, for through faith gospel was not known at this time. Christ had not yet appointed His heavenly Apostle. This Ethiopian was either a Gentile proselyte to the Pentecostal gospel of the Jew, or the Ethiopian was a Jew just a Paul was a Jew, but a Roman. We see at Pentecost, Israelites called by their native, or adopted countries. Joseph was of Egypt, but a Jew there with title in Egypt?

    We only have to look at Acts 10 when Peter tells the Gentile Cornelius if God had not sent him, he (Peter) would be doing an "unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation". No, I cannot buy this tradition of man that through faith justification before God revealed it to man. Let's ask another question. The "church" raked Peter over the coals for his actions, but never said anything to Phillip about preaching to a Gentile. The Word of God does not contradict, and the path of having the "Body of Christ", and "Through faith" being taught before Christ spoke to Paul is, to me, not believable.

    Christ revealed to Paul what God had hidden from the beginning. The Gentile is being brought into the Church, the Body Church. If we cannot believe Paul then should we ever quote again what He said Christ revealed to him? Jesus tells us very plainly that no provision had been made for the Gentile, other than be sub servant to Israel for all eternity. When we fail to take Paul seriously could we leave ourselves open to Zechariah 8:23, "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you." I believe the Gentile not in Christ in the millennium will be as they were in the time of King David.

    My reasoning on this is we are not today in prophecy. We are in a "secret" time of God reconciling the world unto Himself. Can we find this reconciling anywhere else in the Bible outside of Paul, and John (No one understood what Jesus was saying until He was gone from this earth, and John knew the gospel of Paul, and wrote his book 30 or so years after the death of Paul). What I'm saying is no one understood anything about John 3:16, or understood the words of Jesus until John confirmed what Christ had revealed to Paul. We can see from scripture while Jesus was on earth the Apostles did not understand what He was talking about, e.g. Mark 9:32, and others.

    I believe those Apostles have an excuse of being ignorant of His Word, for understanding was not available to them at that time. We have it all laid out for us today, but do we really believe what we read, or what we have been told. Do we believe what Jesus said in His last "great commission", that if we don't believe we will be damned, but if we believe and are baptized we will be saved? Or do we believe Christ from heaven spoke to Paul of a "dispensational" gospel to be preached to the whole world of believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and we will be saved?

    We have John that props up the gospel of Paul on one end, and Peter on the other in II Peter 3:15-16. There is a joint Body of Christ, but they are on their foundation they built on Jesus Christ, and we are on our foundation of Christ Jesus. In the Body of Christ they have their Kingdom Church Jesus gives to them out of His Church, but we remain in the Body of Christ Church in the Kingdom of God.

    If we are of the "Body Church" we will be raptured, and I believe if we are not, then we are of "prophecy" and will go into the "great tribulation period". If we Gentile's do go into this tribulation period, we are back before Damascus Road, where no provision had been made for us. We will then have to depend on the Jew to help us for they will be the one's (144,000) spreading the gospel in prophecy.

    continue as too long for one post
     
Loading...