The Virgin Mary and Original Sin

It is not a direct action by God of which blame can be placed on Him for the action. Will He send the people into the Lake of Fire. I don't know, the Bible says these things will be cast into the Lake of Fire. Does God actually do it, probably, but it doesn't directly say.

But irregardless it is not because of the actions of God that those will go, but because of their rejection of the salvation that God made available to them.

Hope that clarifies where I'm coming from.

 

did Jesus have the genes from mary?

if he did. was Jesus female?

he came from the seed of abraham. yes. the line of abraham. the geneology of abraham.

 

You are stating something that I never said. I didn't say they had the gospel message. I stated that they didn't want to hear from God. God is not going to reveal something to someone who has shown that they aren't interested in hearing from Him anyway.

This is an area that there is not a lot of Light on. Somehow God has given people enough information along with the work of the Holy Spirit that they can show an interest in what has already been revealed to them. If they the shown an interest in that then God will increase the Light. If not then there is no need in revealing more to them, because they don't want to know anyway.

So why is that not enough for you? I told you I don't hold to the tenets of Calvinism and I don't. So why you are doing is calling me a liar. Sorry but I have no reason to be dishonest with you.

I'm not forced to believe that because it is a false teaching and in no way does my denying this false teaching contradict what I do believe.

That the way the Bible explains it, so that's the way I believe it. It is a gift that must be accepted or received however you want to say it. But it has nothing to do with us in that we can not physically do anything for it. I can't sell all my possessions and give them to the poor. I can't pray enough. I can't walk an old lady across the street enough. I can't give enough. I can't be baptized. I can't sing enough songs in the choir, give enough money to the church, attend enough Sunday/Wednesday services. I can't study my Bible enough. I can't feed the hunger and shelter the homeless enough, etc. etc. etc. Eternal salvation is based only on the physical works of Jesus Christ in His death and shed blood as the Sacrifice the Lamb of God. That's it. That's where the Bible puts the period, so that's the end of dicussion. Believe God's Scripture or believe the teachings of man.

Salvation is by grace not by justice. God is a just God and as being everyone deserves the Lake of Fire. But because of Christ's sacrifice on the cross God could set aside His justice and act in mercy toward sinners, because His justice had been satisified on the cross.

Now you are inserting words into my mouth. Everyone has the opportunity to respond to God. No not every single individual that has ever existed has heard the name of Jesus Christ. But it's not because they wanted to and just didn't have an opportunity. It was because they weren't even interested in hearing from God in the first place. God does not force Himself on you or anyone else.

The Bible tells us that all are dead in trespasses and sin, meaning that each person is born with a spirit that is dead. A spirit that can not perceive anything outside of the work of the Holy Spirit in their life in regard to salvation and that includes the initial revelation that God gives to everyone concerning Himself.

Is an unsaved person doing nothing but going around 100% of the time 365 days a year sinning? No. But anything that he/she would do that seems to be good or moral will be done out of a selfish ambition or motive. Their action may not be sinful, but their motive will not be pure.

No that's not what I said. You need to quit inserting words into my mouth. They through the work of the Holy Spirit must accept Christ as His shed blood and death as their Substitute. The key to all that is the work of the Holy Spirit.

I don't know the ins and outs of how the Holy Spirit works, because we are not privy to that information in Scripture, so I can't tell you how that works itself out. That's just the way God lays it out so I believe it.

Incorrect. God makes a way for ALL men to come to salvation. That's what He said and that's what I believe whether I know how He works that out or not.

Absolutely not. As I told you before, which should have sufficed, I do not believe in the tenets of Calvinism. I think they destroy the clear teaching of the Scriptures.

 

All those accusing remarks with a promise of an apology, yet no apology :tongue3: Just more questions.

 

Well it's just as I thought. It was a false offer of an apology. I have shown you that I do not believe in the tenets of Calvinism and yet you still can't eat crow. Typical!

 

Are you sure that Abraham is from the seed of Abraham?
Mary is not the Biological Mother but a surrogate mother.
Don't misunderstand Heb 2:16 as "the seed of Abraham" is not noun form but adjective form> I would translate it as:
"the nature of the seed of Abraham"

I already explained this in my previous posts:
I believe Jesus was born by Holy Spirit as we read in Mt 1:20 in Greek.
He was born out of Holy Spirit already before He came out of Mary. ( Gennao verb was translated as " beget" "begotten" all the time, never as "conceive"

Word became flesh, not the Sperm, the Ovum of Mary was not used.. Mary's Ovum was not designed to be fertilized with Word, but with Sperm.

Jesus was born in Mary by Holy Spirit as a perfect Human Embryo. (Mt 1:20, Heb 10:4-7, etc)

The blood shed at the Cros was not inherited from Mary. He came to save Adam's race ( 1 Cor 15)

Jesus worked before Mary, Abraham was glad to see His days. Jews were upset when they heard Jesus saying " Before Abraham was I am" ( Jn 8:58, 56-58)

Moses esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt. Did he know about Christ? Yes, Read Ex 23:20-23.
There are many verses where you can find Jesus was working in OT times.

Jesus was Sinless, Mary was a sinner in need of a Savior.
She was a Hell-bound woman, but was saved by grace thru Jesus.

 

Where do you all get this stuff. If Jesus didn't have any human genetics then He wasn't human. You run into all kinds of trouble and contradictions with these beliefs.

 

J.Jump...

if Jesus got his human genetics from mary - he'd have about 98% or so of the female chromosomes. with that - Jesus would be female.

do you believe Jesus was female?

is it hard for you to believe that God put human genetics into the seed that He planted in mary?

 

It sounds as though it is equally hard for you to believe that God used Mary's egg, so that He was actually genetically tied to David (just like the Bible says) and somehow through the action of the Holy Spirit was made male.

That's no more hard to believe than what you purpose and the promises of God are left in tack. Your way the promises of God are destroyed.

 

Do you believe this ?
Mt 3: 9 think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Do you believe this ?
Heb 1:5
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son

Who has begotten the Son?


Did Jesus become a new Jesus after He saw Abraham ?

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


Do you know that Jesus was born by Holy Spirit into the body of Mary( Mt 1:20) ?

Didn't it take place before He was born out of Mary ( Mt 1:25) ?

Is it impossible for God to enflesh His Son with the sinless flesh that Adam and Eve had before they sinned ?

Wasn't God able to create Sinless Adam and Eve in Genesis ?

If Jesus came as a Son of Surrogate Mother, then can He not be a descendant of Abraham ?

 

Jesus was not incarnated as a human before birth in Bethlehem. The problem with saying that Jesus is just "enfleshed" is that it does not make him a descendant of David through Mary, as the Bible tells us he is. To be a descendant means he had human genes.

The other problem with saying Mary is not the biological mother is similar to Docetism, an ancient heresy that denies the human nature of Jesus. Jesus was not "created" from nothing but was born as a human baby. His conception was supernatural because of the Holy Spirit, but to deny Jesus' human origins from Mary is, in effect, to deny his participation in the human race, which the Bible says he had.

Heb. 2 tells us that Jesus had to become human and made like men in order to atone for our sins.

 

Exactly...no humanity...no salvation! He is completely human (minus the nature to sin) through Mary (I don't know exactly how that happened - as we are not told) and He is completely God (the only begotten Son of God).

He has to be human and He has to be God. If He is missing one then He can not be the Savior.

 

Are you saying "No Humanity without through Virgin Mary" ?

Humanity was quite possible through Another Adam.

 

I do not know about Docetism or Monophysithism.

If you have a Tube baby, son, is he not your son?

If anyone was born in Abraham's family but as a Tube baby, is he not a descendant of Abraham ?

1) Are you saying Ovum of Mary was fertilized with Word of God? Was the Word become Sperm ? Please answer yes or no.

2) Do you believe that Jesus had the brain before His incarnation. Where was the brain gone, if Mary's ovum and Word of God formed a new life and thereby a new brain?

3) Are you claiming that Jesus was created newly by Mary?
How is the relation between the person of Jesus before Incarnation and the new person Jesus with the body formed between Mary and Holy Spirit?

Where was the old Jesus gone ?

Do you believe that Jesus existed and worked during Old Testament times?

When do you think Abraham saw the days of Jesus?

Was Baptist John wrong when he said " God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham" ?

How could angels and Jehova eat the food prepared by Abraham( Gen 18:1-8) Is anything too hard for the LORD? ( Gen 18:14)

Read Heb 7:1-8.
Did Melchizedek have an earthly mother and earthly father ?
How does Heb 7 say Melchizedek is like unto Son of God?
Isn't it saying that Melchizedek and Son of God are very similar each other in those aspects: no father, no mother, king of righteousness, king of peace, eternal priest, without beginning, without end ? Isn't it the comparison between two photos of one person between the one taken in young age and the other in old age?

How did Jacob wrestle with an Angel and say that he has seen God face to face?
( Gen 32:30)

Are you denying that God can create anything from nothing, and the flesh from dust ?

 

Eliyahu Scripture disagrees with your stance, but if you want to continue to believe that you may.