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The War in 1860 in the US.

Discussion in 'Vets and Friends' started by Salty, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Back in April 1861, the CSA fired on Ft Sumter - thus beginning the War of Independence.

    I. Was this a "real war" in that did the USA actually declare War on the CSA?
    If so, When, If not - why not?

    II - At what point did the South make tactical errors,
    which led to the end of the conflict.

    III. Here are some of the names given to the conflict
    A. Which names best describe the Conflict
    B. Which names do not properly describe the Conflict

    There have been several names given to this war?

    Brothers' War, The
    Civil War, The
    Civil War Between the States, The
    Great Rebellion, The
    Lost Cause, The
    Mr. Lincoln's War
    Second American Revolution , The
    Second War for Independence, The
    Southern Rebellion, The
    Rebellion, The
    War Against Northern Aggression, The
    War Against Slavery, The
    War Between the States, The
    War for Abolition , The
    War for Constitutional Liberty, The
    War for Nationality, The
    War for Separation, The
    War for Southern Freedom, The
    War for Southern Independence, The
    War for Southern Nationality, The
    War for Southern Rights, The
    War for States' Rights , The
    War for the Union, The
    War of Aggression, The
    War of Secession, The
    War of the North and South, The
    War of the Rebellion, The
    War of the Sixties, The
    War of the Southern Planters, The
    War of the Southerns, The
    War to Suppress Yankee Arrogance, The
    Yankee Invasion , The
     
  2. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    You can only declare war on another country. The Union won a vital (diplomatic) victory when they prevented any foreign countries from recognizing the CSA as a country.

    But, Congress authorizing regiments to be raised, and later instituting the draft, certainly makes it a "real war."
     
  3. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Approximately 620,000 soldiers died during this conflict. That is pretty real. Despite the fact that the USA did not declare war, everyone fighting on both sides surely thought it was a “real war.” From the Southern point of view it was also a “real war” in that the Confederate Congress passed an act recognizing the existence of war with the United States (they excepted certain states and territories in the declaration).
    In some ways I think the error of beginning the war was what led to the end of the conflict. The South was out-manned, out-gunned, out-financed, had no allies (so far as I know), and the US had an established government while the CS was forming one. The US had about 22 million citizens while the CS had about 9 million of both free and slaves. The Union forces outnumbered the Confederate forces roughly two to one. In the beginning, great leadership and zeal in the South and poor leadership in the North (perhaps exacerbated by many not having the will to be in The War) made it seem like a much fairer fight than it was. Seems to me tactical errors might have been overcome if not for many other problems.
    For shorthand, I generally use “Civil War” because that is the most common name everyone knows. “Civil War,” as I understand it, describes a war within a nation. That name is accurate from a Northern point of view, since the U.S.A. never recognized the C.S.A. as a sovereign nation. As a “loyal Southerner,” I prefer the “War Against Northern Aggression.” Seems to me if the North had let the South alone to secede, there would have been no war.
     
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  4. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    There was no formal declaration of war by the U.S. Congress. The Confederate attack on Fort Sumter was the casus belli, the act that provoked hostilities. A formal declaration was not needed, because this was a rebellion, an attempt by some states to break away from the Union.

    They lost control of the Mississippi river in the West, not so much by tactical errors but by being defeated by a competent force led by a General named U.S. Grant and that was the beginning of the end for the Southern cause. In the East however the better General by far was Robert E. Lee, but even he could not compensate for the lack of manpower and a strong industrial base - they were doomed to lose barring a negotiated settlement.

    I think the name "The Civil War" best describes the conflict. Those in the Southern States were fond of the name "War of Northern Aggression".
     
    #4 Adonia, Jan 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  5. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. That was an idea/phrase I was trying to think of earlier and couldn't.
     
  6. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    I remembered that phrase from some book I read somewhere. And as you said earlier, the South had great leadership. Men like Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet were certainly worth their weight in gold and they ran rings against the Union leadership, especially in the East. When I read about those battles like Manassas, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville - it makes me think the Union would never win.
     
  7. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    Not only an industrial base, but also an agricultural base. The North out-produced the south in every foodstuff, except for cotton and tobacco. :Biggrin
     
    #7 Rob_BW, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    IMHO -the poor tactical decision was Gettysburg - ie invading the North.
     
  9. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    Ah yes, and General Lee took complete responsibility for the decision. This was one battle where Union leadership operated competently. The decision by Meade to quickly go to Gettysburg and occupy the high ground and make the battle happen there was the correct one.

    As for Lee, after that bad initial decision (invasion), Lee's second bad move was holding Longstreet back from going around to his right, around the Round Top hills, thereby threatening Washington. This would have led Meade to most likely shift troops to his left to meet that threat, and this failure to act then led to Lee's third bad decision, (and the only one really left to make) the frontal attack by Pickett - and after that failed it was all over.

    And we can't also forget J.E.B. Stuart and him going off on a ride to nowhere, thus depriving Lee of his "eyes and ears". It seems nothing was destined to go right for Lee this time that's for sure.

    Perhaps if Longstreet had gone right, Meade gone to his left to meet him, then Pickett could have gone straight up the middle and taken the high ground and then maybe a Confederate victory at Gettysburg would have happened. But alas, that was not to be.
     
    #9 Adonia, Jan 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
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